I’m not sure it’s entirely wise to base our assessments on a people primarily on how they treat ourselves. History is littered with situations where specific groups have been treated unfairly within a larger social group. Ie. Just because your next door neighbour is a top bloke to you doesn’t mean it’s right that they’re cutting up people and using them to line the basis. Your (or my) personal treatment should not and cannot be the sole assessment of whether a group behaves in an ethical or just manner.

Actually I merely note that Marines are culturally similar to the rest of the English speakers, and I base my opinions in part on my experience as a counterintelligence agent for the US for over twenty years starting with the onset of the cold war. As a fighting force, they are among the best, but as moral behaviors go, they aren't. But neither is the average Australian as far as I'm aware.
Their behavior in Okinawa was deplorable, and it's no excuse to note that cultural differences between Marines and Okinawans were wide and largely incompatible.
Bottom line, if you don't feel that you need more military assistance for your territory, don't bring our forced there, as we're still paying a large part of the freight. But otherwise take the Marine out of his uniform and you'd think you had another somewhat rowdy Australian on your hands.
Or are the only rowdy ones those that we see here in Hawaii as tourists?

RE "And don't you tend to rehabilitate the criminal elements from abroad in a flash?"
What a typical obnoxious & unintelligent American response from Roy. And he even has the gall to polish it off with his obvious racist attitude.

The official basis that underpins the establishment of Foreign Military Forces in our nation is exactly the same as the initial official basis for US Troops setting up in South Vietnam in the late 1950s.

That being for *Pre-Prepositioning Logistics for Disaster Response*
http://www.defense.gov/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=117345

Of course this *official reason* is an outright distraction from the Truth being spun to the people of Australia and the Region by both Governments.

Australians would be mindful of what happened to South Vietnam, and never forget the entrenched belief of Americans expressed by GW Bush that " it's better to fight them over there, than on our own soil ".

As to the likes of Roy Niles, the day your nation accepts FOREIGN TROOPS being based on your soil, get back to us. Until then, go back to sleep.

I recommend - Malcolm Fraser June 2012 considers geo-politics and cautions against Australia automatically aligning itself with the United States, arguing for a more sophisticated and independent foreign policy—especially when dealing with countries within our region. He is particularly concerned that Australia not support any moves by the US to 'contain China'.
http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/bigideas/malcolm-fraser/4077276

Remember Vietnam people!
Remember no WMD in Iraq!
Remember 11 years in Afghanistan and we are still there alongside the USA!
Remember the proven incompetence of the US Military and misnomer of their *Intelligence Services* .

For some reason the words "Don't believe you spring to mind" reading you comment.
The US Marines are basically the worst of the worst, a liberal mixing of arrogance and ignorance, already forcing the US military command to keep them as far apart from Australian soldiers as possible in off duty times, least violence result. Fights are already breaking out as US marines treat Australian Soldiers like ignorant indigenous service personal.
There really is no space in Australia for US Marines. The US Navy is barely tolerable as well as the US Air Force, as least they can be taught that attempting to treat all Australians a "service" persons will not be tolerated but US Marines are just too ignorant to taught much of anything, the contempt the rest of the US military treat them with is with good reason.
Mix US Marines in with the Australian populace and far more aggressive protests will result than has been seen in polite Japan, an extremely bad idea.

Robert Tony Brklje,
That was about the phoniest attempt at outrage I've seen yet here. Are your military types so easily beat up? Not from my own service experience. Most of our Marines are rather small in any case, so unless they're shooting at you, I wouldn't worry.
Anyway, nobody cares what you rather amateurish propoganmdists think. It's a done deal.

@Roy Niles

"Anyway, nobody cares what you rather amateurish propoganmdists think. It's a done deal."

Actually Roy, according to polling the country is not too far from being split down the middle on the issue of US deployments to Australia, so plenty of people do care.

The deal might be 'done' but deals can be undone and if past experience in other countries is anything to go by it doesn't look like these bases are going to become *more* popular as time goes by.

By the way, I and my family are all either local or Kamaaina Hawaiians if that's bothering you, Sean.
And we do tend to discriminate amongst ourselves. We don't have a separate group of aborigines to pick on in particular, I guess. Those of us from Niihau are fairly aboriginal, but just too damned nice.

Actualy Roy, your comment, 'came without asking' is a joke.
Anyone with the slightest inderstanding of Australian politics knows our politicians would not pass wind, without first getting the go ahead from Washington.
So to claim we were asked, is a joke, we all know there was gun pointing at their heads when the question was asked, so the outcome was fordained.
Dunno how the issue of early population with criminals got into the debate, however, IMHO, it's those very same criminals who rule today in the U.S. and wait for it, in Australia as well.

Peter, just as laughable as ever: "There is no question that the US knew of the pending attack by Japan; eleven days before the attack on Pearl Harbour Roosevelt ask his security chief to begin documenting the addresses of all US citizens of Japanese descent."

Read Inferno, The World at War, for a truer version. I was in school in Calif. when the Japanese Americans, including some of my friends, were rounded up, but this happened only on our West Coast. It was a stupid attempt to prevent sabotage in aid of an attack on the US mainland. Pearl Harbor, believe it or not, and I'm sure you won't, was a complete surprise.
(Ironically, there were internment camps in some States where Japanese residents in those States lived "free" outside the camps where Californians were prisoners.)
I'll not bother to comment on the rest of that rather silly far leftish diatribe, except to note that of course we're the strongest country on earth, if only because all the others are even weaker.

There are none so dumb as the delusional -- those who will not look at the reality, not learn.

There are none so delusional as the dumb -- those who can't look at the reality, can't learn.

Well all I can say is y'all better hide your women folk.

Miyume, maybe if you're lucky, those Marines will kill a few of themselves off with those planes. And hey, you've gotten the Marines out of Okinawa, and are hoping to get them out of Australia. So how much would you charge to get them out of Kaneohe? We don't like those Ospreys that much either.

On the other hand, if not for the US Navy, which the Marines belong to, you'd all have been speaking Japanese by now, and we wouldn't be needed there at all.

Well that's the stock reply Roy to any criticism of the US in this part of the world - we'd all be Japanese now. It's a bit like saying if not for the Russians (in WW2) you'd all be speaking German now in America. Or perhaps had America won the Vietnam war you'd be saying the marines saved us all from communism - remember the domino theory. How long is that stock answer going to hold any credibility.
The conduct of the US in the various foreign excursions it has undertaken since WW2 has been disgraceful with hundreds of thousands of civilian deaths. I mean - why does America believe it has the right to go around invading other countries just because it has the might to do so. It's shameful. Next on the list - Iran, because it's supposedly pursuing nuclear weapons - I still remember the reasons for going into Iraq - fictional weapons of mass destruction when we all know it was always about oil. It's ok for the US and Israel to be loaded up with nukes but not Iran. Is there a double standard here somewhere.

For the US Australia is not just the farm, it is the beach front, the retirement estate, primary resource reserve, a clean and safe place to live while they run the US via remote.
Australia is not Okinawa, this military occupation has nothing to do with the Pacific, this is all about staking a permanent claim upon Australia, protected by military occupation.
So will US serviceman who commit crimes in Australia be required to face the Australian legal system, very likely, why would the US risk everything they hope to gain to protect some useless idiot when instead they can gain respect of Australians by demonstrating a commitment to justice.

Well spoken Eric, good points regards the history of WW 2.
It would do most Aussies good, to actualy delve into this in depth, they'd be most surprised at their findings. The U.S. is not, and has never been the shining knight in armour some folks seem to under the impression they are

The US is an almost unworkable democracy. We are half liberal and half slave state mentality. George Bush for example has put the country in huge debt by getting us into a stupid war in Iraq. Vietnam was also very badly judged and handled. The domino effect was of course pure propaganda. But none of this has much to do with cooperating with Australia on this troop deal. We aren't invading anybody, etc., etc. etc.
I'm a Democrat, and consider Republicans to be essentially among the simple minded, regardless of their rich and venal leaders. But I see that we have a bunch of Australians commenting here that are not much different from our backwards racists and jingoists. So yammer away, that's apparently how your lot pretend to think.
Rabble roused by an Okinawan who wants to get even perhaps for having lost her Emperor's war. I was in the 8th Air Force at the time and proud to have been of service.

Roy Niles: ‘The US is an almost unworkable democracy.’

It is not a democracy, nor was it ever set up to be. While the definition of ‘democracy’ is open to debate, the minimum required is that it adheres to the rule of law, and that all citizens are equal before the law. The US fails on both counts.

Carter has been quoted as saying that since the second world war, the US has invaded or interfered in the affairs of 100 odd countries with the intention of destroying the legal government of that country.

Vice Admiral Frank E. Beatty, who at the time of the Pearl Harbor attack was an aide to the Secretary of the Navy Frank Knox and was very close to President Franklin D. Roosevelt's inner circle, with perspicuous remarks as:
Prior to December 7, it was evident even to me... that we were pushing Japan into a corner. I believed that it was the desire of President Roosevelt, and Prime Minister Churchill that we get into the war, as they felt the Allies could not win without us and all our efforts to cause the Germans to declare war on us failed; the conditions we imposed upon Japan—to get out of China, for example—were so severe that we knew that nation could not accept them. We were forcing her so severely that we could have known that she would react toward the United States. All her preparations in a military way—and we knew their over-all import—pointed that way.

While I don’t have a copy to hand there is a quote from the US ambassador to Japan who is quoted as telling the military commander that ‘I have delivered the letter, now it is up to you’.

Britain had previously closed the Empire markets to the Japanese. Neither the US nor Britain could compete with industrial output of Japan, although the opening of the Japan to foreign trade had been forced upon them by the Yanks.

‘Jul 10th 2003 | TOKYO | from the print edition
‘OPEN up.’ With that simple demand, Commodore Matthew Perry steamed into Japan's Edo (now Tokyo) Bay with his “black ships of evil mien” 150 years ago this week. Before the black ships arrived on July 8th 1853, Carrying a letter from America's president, Millard Fillmore, and punctuating his message with cannon fire, Commodore Perry ordered Japan's rulers to drop their barriers and open the country to trade. Over the next century and a half, Japan emerged as one of history's great economic success stories. It is now the largest creditor to the world that it previously shunned.
http://www.economist.com/node/1907601?utm_source=TomDispatch&utm_campaign=3139837051-TD_Chernus10_30_2012&utm_medium=email

The Empire and the US have never been able to compete without destroying the industrial capacity of those nations they conquered.

Along with Great Britain the US has been the major war monger in the 150 year or so.

‘I was in the 8th Air Force at the time and proud to have been of service.’

Let’s see? Fire bombing of Tokyo, along with other cities, targeting civilians, a war crime. The bombing of Hiroshima three days after the Japanese had attempted to surrender and the subsequent bombing of Nagasaki; war crimes.

Must be bloody difficult to sleep!

Sean, you remain one of the biggest liars posting here. The moral, pyisical and mental standards of the Marines are much higher than they ever were in the past, and certainly higher than those for the Australian services. Most come from street gangs? What a load of crap you're dishing out. One reason they're being stationed in your boonies is to get as far away as possible from your predatory Australian gangs.
It's true and somewhat unfair that they don't like your Australian brand of homosexuals, and especially don't like them in your military. But they've been forced to allow them in their ranks by law and must accept them. Nobody's perfect.

I apologise for getting back late: time!
Roy Niles : ‘Your far leftish rendition of the history of the war is laughable.’

There is no ‘’far leftish’ view of history. There is though, propaganda, lies, damned lies and self serving nonsense aplenty! Israel being a good example of the latter!

If you read the New Historians on Israel, where you may not have so much emotional baggage invested, you will finish up with enough references to move on into the new historians writing on the European and Japanese conflict, though I doubt that you will like it!

The ‘new’ historians, as in those who write on Israel, for example: Noam Chomsky; Norman G. Finkelstein; Sara Roy; — noted scholars, who work from the latest released reports and documents, Michael Neumann; Thomas Dalton; John J. Mearsheimer; and Stephen M. Walt and the ‘old’ historians who worked without the benefit of the latest available material, and some who still ignore the documentation available who tend to waffle on with the blood and glory for the good of the world nonsense.

Like the rest of my generation, born into the British Empire, we too were fed the unmitigated nonsense of glory and goodwill of the Empire as it destroyed the cultures and communities it plundered to boost the living standards of those in England. I have no doubt that your generation too was fed on such pap.

The fact is that the only thing at which Europeans excelled was rape and rapine. Stealing wealth and knowledge; cotton weaving from Egypt and steel making from India for example set up the British Empire after they had destroyed these industries in the relevant countries.

There is no question that the US knew of the pending attack by Japan; eleven days before the attack on Pearl Harbour Roosevelt ask his security chief to begin documenting the addresses of all US citizens of Japanese descent.

To some there will always be the delusion of ‘honour and glory of serving’, today there is no reason to be so uninformed, so mindless, but some will be deluded enough to go along with it. Some because they believe in the nonsense of ‘superiority’, some because they will take any opportunity to slaughter ‘others’.

One may speculate upon how much the fear of ‘others’ is grounded in the horrendous history of ‘white races’, the murderous history of Europe, the domination of the conquered, the demand that they adopt the religions and trappings of the conquers, as opposed to the acknowledgement and tribute that seems to have been pattern of other empires.

Honour the fallen? They died, in ignorance, or in the belief that they were somehow doing something for their country, their emperor, their king, or in the belated understanding that they, like the poor bastards on the other side, were deluded, had been conned. That it was never about them, but about those who lusted for wealth and power.

Those of today, self selecting, unforced, who either do, or have every reason to be better informed, I do not lament their deaths in any way. More undesirables removed from the gene pool.

The US of A, most powerful nation on earth? Biggest pile of obsolete weaponry on earth, granted. But power generally goes with (generally plundered) wealth, and the US is uncompetitive and broke, nationally and internally. Has been since the 1970's. Today it scrapes by on what it can beg, relying upon ‘old friends’, well, those who hold so much worthless US ‘paper’ that they continue to prop up the US dollar because of the losses they with suffer when the plug is pulled.

Japan, the US’s biggest creditor, followed by China, the second biggest creditor which is busily buying ‘over priced’ assets with worthless US paper. The Saudi family, which has US holdings equal to ten percent of the US’s GDP — at least that was the case before 9/11.

The day will come when nothing will be delivered to the US without gold in advance. Gold, not your worthless paper. That I guess is when the disintegration predicted by those who study such things will happen. They are certain of the break up, the only disagreement is as to whether it will be into three or five pieces.

A certain justice if Mexico takes back Texas and California, don’t you think?

Um Roy, it may be of interest to you, that I actually live in PERTH, Western Australia, the capitol city of W.A. and the city from whence the U.S. Navy "thinks" it can home base a nuclear carrier as well as a few subs, near the Garden Island Australian Naval Base, a few kilometers off shore.
So far, this news has not yet hit the mainstream, and our politicians are working very hard to keep it from the media and popular knowledge.
You don't have to Einstein, to work out why that would be, The citizens of Perth, are reknown for their obsinate refusal to even countenance allowing nuclear powered and weapon carriers within our waters and bases. Do some homework on the Net with the past issues, when the U.S. has tried to visit this place with such ships and the protest movement that ensued, as a direct result.
So don't get your hopes up yet, once the folks here become aware of the betrayal by our politicians both Federal and State, you better prepare yourself for one hell of a shit storm.
Other then the greedy businesses here, West Australians DO NOT WANT U.S. NUCLEAR POWERED, ships here, nor do we want nuclear weapons off our shores.
And most of all, we don't need the U.S. fighting our battles, we are old enough and ugly enough to fight our own.
Have a good day mate.

Eddy.
Anyone who starts off with "um" is for certain going to sling a bit of bull. I don't remember anyone else here talking about nuclear subs, etc., do you? And yeah you can fight your own wars, and would quickly lose if you had to fight the Chinese, nuclear weapons not even in the picture. So um away.

I replied today, 12-6, to a late comment from Peter, but the comment seems to have been posted out of any semblance of order, as will be this one. I'm clearly not smart enough to figure out this comment and reply system, but hell, I live close to Marines and something dumb must have rubbed off.
(Which remind me to advise you that the colors of our Marines won't likely rub off on your women folk.)

If you looked around some more you'd see the European Union for example where everyone minds everyone else's business. The world is not run by the "common" people since in a democracy we still end up electing our kings. Or kingships.
And I wouldn't mind if you moved some Aussie SAS here. The Marines already here might object of course.
I do have a lot of respect for any special forces. The Brits were for a time among the best, and the Germans have always been very good at that kind of work in my experience. Then there's the Foreign Legion which luckily isn't very French. I worked with some good Aussies as well, but not recently. But I digress.

Jim Kable.
Well at least you didn't start off writing with an "um." Otherwise the propaganda is so far left it's far right. And me an agent provocateur? My goodness and I thought I had retired from that business long ago. But I guess it stays in the blood of us oligarchs.