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Ending violence against women is good for everyone

Gender-based violence is condemned by the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the Declaration on the Elimination of all Forms of Discrimination Against Women. But globally, one in three women will…

Globally, one in three women will be beaten in their lifetime. Angela Sevin

Gender-based violence is condemned by the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the Declaration on the Elimination of all Forms of Discrimination Against Women. But globally, one in three women will be beaten in their lifetime.

Australians tend to think that we hold more progressive attitudes toward violence against women and that it’s less prevalent here but the numbers disagree. According to the Australian Bureau of Statistics, one in three Australian women will experience physical violence in their lifetime, while 23% to 28% will experience sexual or emotional harm.

Violence is the leading cause of death, illness and disability for Australian women aged 15 to 44. It’s responsible for more illness and premature death than any other preventable cause, such as hypertension, obesity, or smoking.

There’s a lack of consistent data on how many women are hospitalised because of violence but we know that domestic violence constitutes the single biggest health risk to women of reproductive age. It also results in economic losses of about $13.6 billion a year.

Non-fatal acute physical injuries commonly include bruising, burns, broken bones, traumatic brain injury and other internal damage. And sexual violence increases the risk of unintended pregnancies, sexually transmitted infections and gynaecological problems.

Women in chronically violent situations report ongoing headaches, back and abdominal pain, gastrointestinal disorders, as well as limited mobility and other disabilities. They also tend to attempt suicide more often than the general population. And a recent Australian study found that women who suffered multiple types of violence had up to a 90% lifetime risk of mental disorders.

The impact of violence on women of reproductive age also has strong implications for their children. In Australia, 36% of women who reported experiencing violence said it occurred when they were pregnant, and 18% experienced it for the first time during pregnancy.

Australian data from 2011 shows violence against women is more common than many other conditions screened for in antenatal clinics, and causes higher rates of miscarriage, low birth weight and stillbirth. A population-based study from Western Australia, spanning from 2002 to 2008, found women exposed to violence had double the risk of adverse maternal and foetal complications compared to an unexposed group.

It’s difficult to have open and honest conversations about what we need to do to stop violence against women in a society that considers itself to be inclusive, progressive and fair. Moreover, the causes of gender-based violence are often thought to exist in private where problems exist between two individuals.

However, assuming violence is a private issue poses a number of dilemmas. It allows us to dismiss the problem as a series of isolated incidents committed by “bad apples”. And it overlooks the fact that men and women experience violence in different contexts.

Men are more likely to be assaulted in public places by other men. But over one third of the violence experienced by women occurs in their home and most of it is perpetrated by someone they know.

Many factors contribute to our tolerance of such violence. One is the failure to recognise and challenge attitudes around gender that devalue women and support violence.

Research has identified men’s and boys' attitudes around gender roles as a key social determinant of violence against women. This research found that men who hold sexually hostile, sexist, or patriarchal attitudes are much more likely to assault women, and that violence-supportive peer cultures are also a major risk factor.

This is where the private becomes public – men and boys don’t develop these views in isolation. Communities can and must support boys in developing positive attitudes toward women and equip them with better ways of dealing with conflict. Men and boys are also impacted by the violence against women around them, so education will clearly benefit society as a whole.

The National Plan to Reduce Violence Against Women and their Children highlights decreasing community tolerance toward violence against women as a key objective. But until Australian society recognises and responds to it as a problem for everyone, the statistics are likely to remain unchanged.

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  1. Kim Darcy

    Analyst

    While all violence is to be abhored, deliberately misrepresenting the data is unacceptable.
    "According to the Australian Bureau of Statistics, one in three Australian women will experience physical violence in their lifetime."
    This is false. Firstly, the ABS Survey found that 1/3 women had experienced one or more forms of violence over their entire lives. Nowhere does it claim this figure will prevail going forward for women today. In other words, a 60 year old who was slapped by a school bully in High School bully back in 1968 counts. Secondly, all violence - and especially violence against women - has plummeted dramatically over the past 3 decades. The picture you are trying to pain might have had some resemblance to the truth of life back in 1980, but it is a complete fabrication of life in 2013.
    Trying to incite 'gender violence panic' in order to bolster claims for more and more taxpayer's money to wage ideological campaigns is a very bad look.

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    1. Sue Ieraci

      Public hospital clinician

      In reply to Kim Darcy

      I don't have particular expertise in this area, but Kim's "high school bully" excuse did not seem plausible, so I went to the ABS source and found that, in the 2011 report on domestic violence, the greatest risk group for violence in the last 12 moths was the youngest group - aged 18-24. They were reporting violence during 2010 - not 1968.

      The one-in-three figure is quoted as "globally".

      I don't see anyone "deliberately misrepresenting the data", Kim, let alone making a "complete fabrication."

      When someone outside their area of expertise makes criticisms with such hyperbole, one would have to wonder about their motivations.

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    2. Kim Darcy

      Analyst

      In reply to Sue Ieraci

      Sue, sorry, but that ABS Survey they link to is not about the global. And the 1/3 figure is not about violence in the lat 12 months (which is very low), but about violence at any time in their entire lives since they were 15 years of age. They said:
      "According to the Australian Bureau of Statistics, one in three Australian women will experience physical violence in their lifetime, while 23% to 28% will experience sexual or emotional harm."

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    3. account deleted

      logged in via email @gmail.com

      In reply to Sue Ieraci

      The old "1 in 3" chestnut gets rolled out every year and it gets debunked every year.

      The ABS document that the authors link to, the Personal Safety Survey 2005, shows that males experienced violence in the previous year at a rate around double that experienced by women, so why aren't the authors writing articles about this far bigger group of violence victims?

      Sue, young people generally experience more violence. Go to any place where highschool kids hang out. The data is being misrepresented because it is being cherry-picked, Sue. You know all about cherry-picking though, don't you?

      To the authors - your link to http://www.fahcsia.gov.au/our-responsibilities/women/programs-services/reducing-violence/the-national-plan-to-reduce-violence-against-women-and-their-children doesn't work. Not that that's a bad thing, it's a poor excuse for not much at all anyway and doesn't have anything useful to say.

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    4. Kim Darcy

      Analyst

      In reply to Sue Ieraci

      Sue, you might be right that we should worry about their motivations. One thing that is more widely known is that academic Social Science in Australia is woeful. The lack of analytical and critical thinking is stunning, and the abuse of statistics is rife. I remember growing up thinking that "10% of people are gay", and "One in Three women are raped". Given how artless a lot of the statistical abuse is, it suggests more a lack of training in data collection and analysis than anything else. This lack of training is compounded by the even more worrying ignorance of the Natural Sciences, which more often extends to outright rejection of Science itself, as a mere "discourse of power". In other words, whole swathes of Australian academic Social Science is conducted by people with no expertise, which gets passed down the chain to students, including academics in training.

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    5. Sue Ieraci

      Public hospital clinician

      In reply to Kim Darcy

      "we should worry about their motivations. "

      "Their", Kim? Was that a Freudian slip?

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    6. Kim Darcy

      Analyst

      In reply to Sue Ieraci

      Sue, you were going so well with "I don't have particular expertise in this area". Why ruin it?

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  2. Kim Darcy

    Analyst

    And neither the UNDHR nor the DEDAW says anything whatsoever about violence, let alone "gender-based" violence.

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    1. Linda Murray

      Lecturer in Global Health at University of Tasmania

      In reply to Kim Darcy

      Thanks very much for your comments. The reason we used the terms ‘violence against women’ and ‘gender based violence’ were to be consistent with the World Health Organisation definitions. These are available from the link in the article, and also here: http://www.who.int/gender/violence/gbv/en/index.html. I completely agree that in Australia, the rates of physical violence experienced by men and women since age 15 are comparable. However, refusing to acknowledge the different contexts in which women…

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    2. Kim Darcy

      Analyst

      In reply to Linda Murray

      Linda, I did not say anything at all about "rates of physical violence experienced by men and women since age 15 are comparable". My issue is solely about your misrepresenting violence against women, full stop.

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    3. Kim Darcy

      Analyst

      In reply to Linda Murray

      And Linda, once you correct the misrepresentations of the very research you cite for your claims, you need to fix up your once again complete misrepresentations of what the UNDHR and the DEDAW say. I really can't understand why so many genderist academics continue to blatantly misrepresent data in order to scare young women and girls. Grooming through inflaming fear based on misrepresenting the world is a very bad look. Not to mention anti-intellectual.

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  3. Comment removed by moderator.

  4. Stephen S Holden

    Associate Professor, Marketing at Bond University

    Ugh! Why make this a gender issue? I think that most would agree that reducing violence would be good for everyone - and wouldn't we want everyone to be on-board this agenda?

    Why lead with a misleading premise about the victims of violence? Men are twice as likely to be victims of violence than women - as noted in the ABS report cited and as noted by other commentators.

    If there has to be a sex agenda, then point out the fact that men are *much more likely* than women to be the perpetrators of violence. This is clean and clear as shown in the same ABS report - see Table 16, p.30 for instance!

    However, even then, stopping perpetrators of violence is going to be good for everyone - regardless of their sex.

    And then we can move on to stopping perpetrators of emotional and psychological violence - regardless of the sex of the perpetrators and the victims.

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    1. account deleted

      logged in via email @gmail.com

      In reply to Stephen S Holden

      Well said.

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  5. Helen Berents

    Sessional Lecturer at Australian Catholic University

    I feel, as I often feel on the internet, that several commentators are (deliberately?) missing the point. The authors have not said that violence against men does not occur, nor said it is not something people should be concerned about. Rather they have said that violence against men (more often) occurs in public, and violence against women much more frequently occurs in the private space of homes. As a result, it is convenient to often consider this form of violence a private issue, without interrogating…

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  6. Andee.Jones has.updated

    logged in via Facebook

    The gender debate can generate intense heat. In the spirit of fostering cool contemplation, here are some available data and sources:

    To clarify the original UN source of Linda's 1-in-3 reference:
    UN Secretary General’s Campaign to end violence against women says: ‘The most common form of violence experienced by women globally is physical violence inflicted by an intimate partner. On average, at least one in three women is beaten, coerced into sex or otherwise abused by an intimate partner in…

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    1. account deleted

      logged in via email @gmail.com

      In reply to Andee.Jones has.updated

      "otherwise abused" is not "beaten" as the author claims in the article.

      Do you really think that only 4% of men have been "otherwise abused" by a female partner? Really? Where have you lived all your life?
      Moreover, the statistics for DV with same-sex relationships, both lesbian and gay male, are just as high, if not higher than the straight figures.

      I say you're cherry-picking to suit your preferred message.

      On the subject of homicide, it's true that when a father goes mad and kills…

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    2. Andee.Jones has.updated

      logged in via Facebook

      In reply to account deleted

      Hi Craig, thanks for your resoinse. Re the 1-in-3 point, my intention was to clarify the quote -- no more, no less.

      As to what I think about what happens in actuality, I'm puzzled by your question. How can any of us know what happens across the globe, the country, or even in our own street? If we' want to get informed, our only option is to weigh up the available evidence. Re my reference from White Ribbon: 'Of the men who experienced violence, only 4% was by a female current or former partner', if you're interested, I'd suggest checking out the source:
      http://www.menshealthaustralia.net/files/What_About_The_Men.pdf

      I'm very interested in this area and would appreciate details from you about the research evidence re your claims.

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    3. Andee Jones

      Author and retired psychologist and academic at University of Melbourne

      In reply to Kim Darcy

      Thanks Kim, it's good to know we've both clarified something. Given that the web of comments becomes denser by the minute, could I suggest you copy and paste points when you're referring back to them?

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    4. Linda Murray

      Lecturer in Global Health at University of Tasmania

      In reply to Andee.Jones has.updated

      Thanks very much Andee! We quoted the 2006 data because the results of the next personal safety survey will be available later this year. It will be great to have a new dataset to explore and see if the rates have actually changed. However, studies conducted since 2006 report similar findings, and are summarised nicely here: http://www.whiteribbon.org.au/uploads/media/Fact%20Sheet%205%20Facts%20and%20Figures%20What%20is%20violence%20against%20women%202009.pdf.

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    5. Kim Darcy

      Analyst

      In reply to Andee.Jones has.updated

      "What’s the take-home message?"
      The message is violence against women has dropped dramatically over the past generation.
      "Anti-violence educator Jackson Katz says..."
      If you really give authority to pre-WWII Freudian Marxist ideology, I don't know what to say.

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    6. Andee Jones

      Author and retired psychologist and academic at University of Melbourne

      In reply to Kim Darcy

      Here's what I take homw from the debate, Kim:

      1. The amount of violence perpetrated against women, men and children is unacceptably high (whether or not current rates are less than in previous periods);

      2. A minority of men commits the large majority of that violence.

      3. Our culture, particularly mainstream media, exacerbates the problem by telling boys and men they have to be tough and dominant (otherwise they are weak);

      4. Of all the potential solutions, the most immediately effective will happen when men start telling the abusive minority to stop their violence.

      If that's what 'pre-WWII Freudian Marxist ideology' is, Kim, do I have any choice but to wear it?
      Yours in solidarity,
      Andee

      .

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    7. Kim Darcy

      Analyst

      In reply to Andee Jones

      "whether or not current rates are less than in previous periods"
      Really? Are you being serious that you think the dramatic slump in just a few decades is irrelevant? Given that just a few hours ago, you did not even have an idea of what the situation really is, perhaps some time hitting the books to catch up on where the debate is, and what the facts are, would be the best forward for now? Merely restating your take, except not using any data at all, in favour of - to be blunt - vacuous motherhood statements, is not really helpful.

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    8. Adam Richards

      Teacher

      In reply to Andee Jones

      "Of all the potential solutions, the most immediately effective will happen when men start telling the abusive minority to stop their violence."

      I don't know anyone that perpetrates any kind of violence. How do you suggest I go about this? Walk around with sandwich board declaring that violence should end? Why should it be only men that tell the abusive minority to stop. Why not men and women?

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    9. Adam Richards

      Teacher

      In reply to Andee.Jones has.updated

      Out of interest I had a quick look at one of the links provided.

      http://www.menshealthaustralia.net/files/What_About_The_Men.pdf

      I don't think I have ever come across a slimier piece of writing ever.

      Firstly, this line.

      "Of the men who experienced violence,only 4% of assaults were by a female current or former partner."
      There are a number of problems with this statement.
      1) It doesn't give complete numbers, 4% of assaults is what in real terms? How many men are assaulted in their lifetime…

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    10. Kim Darcy

      Analyst

      In reply to Adam Richards

      Keep reading. Wait until you get to the epidemic of sexual violence against women experiencing "unwanted comments on their appearance"! I mean, call in the army to put down this "rape culture" where men are encouraged by the rape media to say to a woman "that blouse looks nice on you"! Quickly, somebody gives $500,000 to a Gender Studies team of separatist misandrist lesbians to write a UN "Declaration Against Compliments"! What a scam and a con.

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    11. Adam Richards

      Teacher

      In reply to Kim Darcy

      I did indeed read through the whole thing, but I didn't want to turn a already long post into a novel. This document is one of the most blatant pieces of propaganda I have read in a long time.

      Another example is the second last question, "Wouldn’t men under-report their experience of domestic violence?"
      Answer
      <Once again my comments in brackets>
      "-Men are likely to under-estimate and under-report their subjection to domestic violence by women,
      because admitting such vulnerability is emasculating…

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    12. Sue Ieraci

      Public hospital clinician

      In reply to Kim Darcy

      The road toll is also lower than ever, Kim.

      Since road safety is of relevance to the lives of young men, should we stop any further efforts to improve because we're already doing better than before?

      Like I said, your protestations must be evidence of some complex motivation.

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  7. Jena Zelezny

    research for second PhD in Humanities and Social Sciences (Performance Studies/Theatre & Drama/Dramatic Literature/Visual Arts) at La Trobe University

    I am really disgusted by the type of comment offered by those who live in the ivory tower of a privileged existence where opportunity and, seemingly, sanctity/sanctuary exists.

    For those who live in the actual world, dealing/coping with the effects of violence is a part of everyday existence. I am speaking about ostracised communities grouped together under the rubric of poverty. Acts of violence and abuse are not features that can be distributed over or attributed to and among those who exist…

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    1. Kim Darcy

      Analyst

      In reply to Jena Zelezny

      Jena, actually we do not live in "violent times" at all. We live in the most NON violent times in human history.

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    2. Jena Zelezny

      research for second PhD in Humanities and Social Sciences (Performance Studies/Theatre & Drama/Dramatic Literature/Visual Arts) at La Trobe University

      In reply to Kim Darcy

      I believe the evidence is clear kim. Nuclear capabilities, germ warfare, precision bombing, drones... anyone can make a bomb,

      I do not know how you delude yourself.

      Do not patronise kim and please do not hide under anonymity. Declare who you are, that is, provide a profile. Otherwise this 'Conversation' is just an opportunistic modality for people to make what I will refer to as 'sniderisms'.

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    3. Andee Jones

      Author and retired psychologist and academic at University of Melbourne

      In reply to Jena Zelezny

      Hi Jena, many thanks for your comments. I wondered if you might be interested in a brief paper I've written on the nexus between gender-based violence and the militaristic mindset. It's in op-ed style, but if you're interested, I can provide the references or a scholarly version of the paper.
      best, Andee

      'What’s up with being a woman?' Andee Jones © 2013

      A woman belongs in the house—or in the grave Afghan saying

      ‘Am not!’ yells the toddler—his eyes filling—to the big boys on the see-saw…

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    4. Jena Zelezny

      research for second PhD in Humanities and Social Sciences (Performance Studies/Theatre & Drama/Dramatic Literature/Visual Arts) at La Trobe University

      In reply to Andee Jones

      Thanks Andee, definitely interested.

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    5. Kim Darcy

      Analyst

      In reply to Jena Zelezny

      Jena, I am not patronising you. I am merely informing you that you are extremely misinformed, and as a result what you are posting here is simply wrong.

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    6. Jena Zelezny

      research for second PhD in Humanities and Social Sciences (Performance Studies/Theatre & Drama/Dramatic Literature/Visual Arts) at La Trobe University

      In reply to Kim Darcy

      and you are an analyst of what kim? What are your credentials and what do you believe gives you the authority to assume that I am 'extremely misinformed'? I would think that according to logic and/or grammar I am misinformed or not. I don't think I can be extremely misinformed.

      I reiterate; Do not patronise kim and please do not hide under anonymity. Declare who you are, that is, provide a profile. Otherwise this 'Conversation' is just an opportunistic modality for people to make what I will refer to as 'sniderisms'.

      i will not, in future discussion, become embroiled in your disturbances.

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    7. Dale Bloom

      Analyst

      In reply to Kim Darcy

      That is correct.

      The murder rate in Australia has been in decline for years.

      Domestic violence is very subjective, but if there was a high rate of domestic violence, one would expect the murder rate to be increasing, but instead, it is decreasing.

      Again, more evidence that "Men's violence against women" is simply anti-male rehtoric, and an attempt to turn women against men.

      I believe nothing stated on International Women's Day.

      More like "Feminist Anti-male Rehtoric Day"

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    8. Adam Richards

      Teacher

      In reply to Jena Zelezny

      "I believe the evidence is clear kim. Nuclear capabilities, germ warfare, precision bombing, drones... anyone can make a bomb,"

      I think you are confusing potential with actual.

      While there are undoubtedly many horrible things going on in the world, the world, and in particular Australia, has never been safer.

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    9. Jena Zelezny

      research for second PhD in Humanities and Social Sciences (Performance Studies/Theatre & Drama/Dramatic Literature/Visual Arts) at La Trobe University

      In reply to Adam Richards

      Safe for you apparently Adam and therefore because you have no experience of violation and/or violence the problem doesn't exist and no one else matters?

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    10. Jena Zelezny

      research for second PhD in Humanities and Social Sciences (Performance Studies/Theatre & Drama/Dramatic Literature/Visual Arts) at La Trobe University

      In reply to Dale Bloom

      I urge you to speak with those who work in Rape Crisis, CASA, the police sexual assault units, hospital emergency teams and the DVCS Dale.

      I suggest that the claims are not anti-male they are legitimate and substantiated cases of sometimes horrific violence.

      The argument is about human propensity for violence and does not only refer to the so-called developed countries such as Australia.

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    11. Kim Darcy

      Analyst

      In reply to Jena Zelezny

      Jena, you just do not get it, do you? Did it ever occur to you that folks are furious that academics could exploit such a serious issue precisely because we DO have experience of "violation and/or violence"?

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    12. Jena Zelezny

      research for second PhD in Humanities and Social Sciences (Performance Studies/Theatre & Drama/Dramatic Literature/Visual Arts) at La Trobe University

      In reply to Kim Darcy

      I am not, and I do not believe others are, exploiting the fact that humans have a propensity for violence. The accusation of exploitation is unwarranted.

      Your sentence otherwise is somewhat obtuse. Do you want to restate it?

      I hope I have made myself clear.

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    13. Adam Richards

      Teacher

      In reply to Jena Zelezny

      Ahh, assumptions. You know the old saying, except this time it is only you.

      I grew up in an abusive household, my mother, though never when my father was around. Do I fear and hate women because of my experience, don't be ridiculous. To extrapolate my personal experience into thinking it is the norm is a sign of a mental disorder.

      I grew up in a very rough area. Boys and girls were equally willing to fight.

      I have worked as a teacher in a few Aboriginal communities in the NT. Violence in…

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    14. account deleted

      logged in via email @gmail.com

      In reply to Jena Zelezny

      The problem is, Jena, that those people are only interested in their own ease of operations. the broadening of DV laws, both in definition and in the types of action that can be taken are all about making it easier for police by limiting the possible responses they have to choose from and by defining any disagreement as "violence" and hence actionable under that limited set of responses. The most usually-applied response is removal of the man from the home and the imposition of an interim AVO/DVO…

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  8. Peter Redshaw

    Retired

    I am a little stunned at some of the comments here in response to this article about violence against women. It is like a denial of the problem in the attempt to minimise it by talking about it may only have been an instance with a school bully. Even the issues of school bullies, whether it be physical violence, threats of physical violence, or threats of emotional violence can have severe lasting affects for some people.

    And then I saw one person complain that I have never seen any women/girl…

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    1. Andee Jones

      Author and retired psychologist and academic at University of Melbourne

      In reply to Peter Redshaw

      Well said, Peter. And you are right about the generational effect. See Michael Flood's (2006) online paper: The factors influencing community attitudes in relation to violence against women.
      Best, andee

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    2. Kim Darcy

      Analyst

      In reply to Andee Jones

      The generational effect is a stunning drop in violence in general, and especially violence against women, including Initmate Partner Violence (IPV). Airy ideological constructions like "patriarchy" and "misogyny" are not all that helpful in understanding IPV. For example, including a focus on the puzzlingly high rates of partner violence among lesbians throws a different light on the subject.

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    3. Andee Jones

      Author and retired psychologist and academic at University of Melbourne

      In reply to Kim Darcy

      Thanks Kim, but I'm not sure what you're referring to. I was responding to a specific point made by peter.

      Again I can only suggest that you copy and paste material you are referring back to. In addition, it would be helpful if you would provide the references when you refer to research. Otherwise, there's no informed conversation to be had.
      Best, andee

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    4. Kim Darcy

      Analyst

      In reply to Andee Jones

      Hi Andee. for the dramatic drop in violence against women, including IPV see the very ABS Survey the authors here use:
      http://www.ausstats.abs.gov.au/Ausstats/subscriber.nsf/0/056A404DAA576AE6CA2571D00080E985/%24File/49060_2005%20(reissue).pdf

      For IPV or "domestic violence" in gay and lesbian relationships see:
      http://www.austdvclearinghouse.unsw.edu.au/Conference%20papers/Exp-horiz/Davis_Taylor.pdf

      For the dramatic decline in violence (including against wormen) more broadly see, for example, Steven Pinker and Peter Singer
      http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/06/books/review/the-better-angels-of-our-nature.html

      http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/09/books/review/the-better-angels-of-our-nature-by-steven-pinker-book-review.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

      That's a start. If you need more, just holler.

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    5. Andee Jones

      Author and retired psychologist and academic at University of Melbourne

      In reply to Kim Darcy

      Help me out here Kiim. I'd love to wade through the entire major reports, but if you could provide page refs, even pasted quotes, I'd be much obliged.
      Best, andee

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    6. Jena Zelezny

      research for second PhD in Humanities and Social Sciences (Performance Studies/Theatre & Drama/Dramatic Literature/Visual Arts) at La Trobe University

      In reply to Kim Darcy

      Thanks for the perspective of males given in response to their limited lives and their sequestered experience.

      I'd respect your sources of information if you referred to the people who actually respond to the violence i.e., Rape Crisis, CASA, Lifeline, the Salvation Army, DVCS (Domestic Violence Crisis Service), the police, and the victims/survivors, not to mention Amnesty International and Médecins Sans Frontières.

      Can you consider that not all violence is reported and noted and/or thereby…

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    7. Kim Darcy

      Analyst

      In reply to Jena Zelezny

      Jena, clearly you have no training in empirical Social Science, so there's not much point in continuing this discussion.

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    8. Jena Zelezny

      research for second PhD in Humanities and Social Sciences (Performance Studies/Theatre & Drama/Dramatic Literature/Visual Arts) at La Trobe University

      In reply to Kim Darcy

      Thanks for the compliment. Empiricism is aligned with ignorance when it denies the experiential.

      Never mind kim, ducking for cover is the last resort AND you are still hiding behind the 'analyst' frame. What gives?

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    9. Dale Bloom

      Analyst

      In reply to Jena Zelezny

      "perspective of males given in response to their limited lives and their sequestered experience. "

      You have just given verbal abuse.

      If this was a domestic environment, your verbal abuse would be regarded as domestic violence.

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    10. Jena Zelezny

      research for second PhD in Humanities and Social Sciences (Performance Studies/Theatre & Drama/Dramatic Literature/Visual Arts) at La Trobe University

      In reply to Dale Bloom

      Yet another 'analyst' who chooses to remain anonymous.

      Clearly a comment that has no experience of or reference to that which constitutes verbal abuse under the law and/or verbal abuse in the presumed safety of the 'family' institution.

      Please make your allegation under legal terms and act upon it otherwise withdraw your accusation and reframe it.

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    11. Adam Richards

      Teacher

      In reply to Peter Redshaw

      "If violence in all its forms is not rightly condemned within a society it remains entrenched within that society. That should be the first lesson that we should learn."

      This is a great line. The problem is many feminist authors and the White Ribbon Campaign don't think of it as a 'societal problem', they see it as a 'men' problem. This more than anything is creating an us vs them mentality. This needs to change, then as a society, we can rightly condemn violence in all its forms.

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    12. Adam Richards

      Teacher

      In reply to Jena Zelezny

      "Empiricism is aligned with ignorance when it denies the experiential."

      Translated.
      "I don't care what all the other data says, I don't care how many studies there have been, if it does not align with my personal experience, it must be wrong."

      In your world, outliers are the norm and the experiences of the majority, rare.

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    13. Jena Zelezny

      research for second PhD in Humanities and Social Sciences (Performance Studies/Theatre & Drama/Dramatic Literature/Visual Arts) at La Trobe University

      In reply to Adam Richards

      I said that "Empiricism is aligned with ignorance when it denies the experiential."

      Meaning - data is not the only basis for evaluation. Data as related to evidence and levels of violence is based upon reported incidents. Not all violence is reported.

      Moreover, Australia has a very small population. Can you provide me with data from Afghanistan Adam? India?

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    14. Kim Darcy

      Analyst

      In reply to Andee Jones

      Andee, have you ever had any experience whatsoever raising and educating boys?

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    15. Adam Richards

      Teacher

      In reply to Jena Zelezny

      "Can you provide me with data from Afghanistan Adam? India?" What does this have to do with your comment that I replied to earlier?

      I think anecdotal evidence is important. It can remind us that the norm, is only the norm for the majority, not everybody. You seem to be taking the other road though. You seem to place the experiential above the empirical.

      What it should say is "Empiricism does not apply to everybody".

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  9. Andee Jones

    Author and retired psychologist and academic at University of Melbourne

    I don't know about other commentators, but I'd like to go to the heart of the matter. Any substantial disagreement with the following summary?

    1. The amount of violence perpetrated against women, men and children is unacceptably high (whether or not current rates are less than in previous periods);

    2. A minority of men commits the large majority of that violence.

    3. Our culture, particularly mainstream media, exacerbates the problem by telling boys and men they have to be tough and dominant (otherwise they are weak);

    4. Of all the potential solutions, the most immediately effective will happen when men start telling the abusive minority to stop their violence.

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    1. Kim Darcy

      Analyst

      In reply to Andee Jones

      "3. Our culture, particularly mainstream media, exacerbates the problem by telling boys and men they have to be tough and dominant (otherwise they are weak."
      Is this for real? In 2013, you lead with "it was the media what done it"? I used to get pulled up for this in Year 8 essays. Do you have any contact with boys? I can assure you that their consumption of the "mainstream media" is practically zip. OTOH, from Kindergarten onward, just about every school teacher they have is a woman. 80% of them grow up with no influential adult male authority figure whatsoever. So me thinks the long passe Freudian Marxist cop-out -"it's all the media" - is just denial. What you are basically really saying is that the hyper-feminist milieu boys are raised in is responsible for 'unacceptably high levels of violence'.
      I don't agree, because your interpretation is not based on what the data says.

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    2. Kim Darcy

      Analyst

      In reply to Kim Darcy

      Sorry, that should be "20% of them grow up with no influential adult male authority figure whatsoever."

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    3. Adam Richards

      Teacher

      In reply to Kim Darcy

      You have no idea how many parents are ecstatic at their children having me as a teacher. Often I am the first male teacher their child has had. I primarily teach year 9's (14 years of age, for those that don't know), this is possibly the most difficult age, as a parent and teacher, to deal with. In general, boys and girls do learn differently. I could go on for ever about the feminisation of education, especially in regards to men being pushed out of primary education, but that is for my thesis. Needless to say, educational outcomes for girls are now surpassing that of boys, by a wide margin. This has little to do with ability and much to do with environment.

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    4. account deleted

      logged in via email @gmail.com

      In reply to Andee Jones

      Andee, are women going to tell the abusive minority of women not to tell lies about violence? Are women going to tell the abusive minority that it is not OK to start something then call the cops?

      You see, none of what you've written treats women as anything other than perpetual helpless, hapless victims of men. My experience of women is that few are like that. In fact, outside the sociology department thought bubbles, I'm not sure that any women are really like that. Being considered a victim…

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  10. Jena Zelezny

    research for second PhD in Humanities and Social Sciences (Performance Studies/Theatre & Drama/Dramatic Literature/Visual Arts) at La Trobe University

    Data is not the only evaluative tool.

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    1. Adam Richards

      Teacher

      In reply to Jena Zelezny

      Data when collected and analysed properly is free of the biases that humans are incapable of removing. We are imperfect. Our experiences are always blinded by our perceptions. Often we see what we want to see, not what is there.

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    2. account deleted

      logged in via email @gmail.com

      In reply to Jena Zelezny

      This, from somebody who claims to be a PhD student sums up everything that is wrong with the humanities. We shouldn't be too surprised though, Latrobe has a long history of producing advocates rather than academics in its social studies department.

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