Hi Colin

thanks for your reply. I understand what you are saying. I do not blame my parents at all. These emotional patterns are past through the generations. What I have only just waken up to is that when a person does not face their own childhood trauma and becomes a parent they pass it on to their children. I knew it intellectually, but I can see it in my heart. My mother and family simply refuse to acknowledge any of this and insist I take total blame for my depression (and drug addiction).

As I mentioned I have spent 30 years seeing counsellors working on myself to overcome depression and addiction. And I just could not overcome them despite this serious continuous effort.

What I have realised is that families unconsciously prevent individual members from untangling themselves and from getting better to a degree we do not realise.

You are right it is up to us once we have reached adulthood. However this belief does not take into account the power of the unconscious. Second, while I did take responsbility for my issues, none of all these psychologists and psychiatrists were of any real help despite my serious and honest work with them.

But, as I also said, I did finally get there, and as strange as it sounds I did pull my families shame and projections out of my psyche in a wonderfully liberating psychotic episode. I now know I will never experience depression again.

To be free of depression after 30 years Colin! ANd only because I DID take responsbility for doing it myself. My family have literally tried to convince me I am still mentally ill. Not because they are bad people, or more fucked up than others, but because that is what we have all been taught to believe: people who have mental illnesses will always be mentally ill. THis is wrong and I have just proved it. ANd I am going to find a way of telling other people about it. Am writing an essay on it now.

What a perfect post, your exactly right Nick, every problem or concern has a reason and an answer, answers heal, and once that sits comfortably in the heart or mind of that someone, or someone knows that, and starts to work at understanding and resolving the issues concerning them, with or without some help, which is called maturity,usually better with help, they start to free themselves/ their minds and their hearts up, i maintain there are two entities working, a thought and a feeling, hand in hand, together simultaneously, never one without the other,and if psychiatry catered to both realities, like a loving family does, and recognised their poison as a temporary crutch for the temporarily over concerned, which is what its meant to be, for the most, not only will they(the sufferer), start to heal/ grow again, but will be a content, not a drugged, oppressed, and alienated person in society,or in the bin, the real cure is in the love and the understanding and that type of care, born of both the elements, ie you cant mend a brain if your breaking a heart, or a family's hearts(plural) for that matter, and like you say, even if they are ready to do that, are so vegetated, hurt, abused, and alienated from forced, very very often debilitating poisons, that they cant possibly do that, and that clamp of madness, in these cases of forced poison, is what is sending not only the victim, but the whole of society, as a collective, insecure and partly guilt ridden,lies and guilt are the main causes of insanity,alcohol and drugs elevate those concerns, and all that equals mad, treating temporary mad with a permanent poison, which is what they do for the most, is a crime without a doubt, an unwellness born of ,or through, lifes struggles and lifes adversity, the roller-coaster, that all have answers, and lighter ways to observe or see, with the right care and guidance if necessary, that is what will get these people going again, not a vegetative poison that's injected "by force" every fourteen days.

Act or be that way!!, "we all suffer" collectively, act in love and common care,words of wisdom and care, that will heal the sufferer, as well as the societal concern or unwellness theyve created, by gung ho, poisoning everything or one,, and in doing that will help the victims of psychiatry,all of us.

The people causing the unwellness,psychiatry, need to see the pain and the damage they cause, as well as, the help for the some it helps, credit where credits due, but in the fact that its abusive in the hearts mind and the body, to "more than the majority" it forces to swallow, and in that, is "plainly" mistreating our, immature, troubled, hard life, brothers and sisters, sons and daughters, and even though that's something that no one( Virtually) working within mental health will ever admit to.that's exactly what's happening, the same as "psychotropic withdrawal psychosis", or post psychiatric abuse dissorder, and which i doubt anyone connected to mental health has ever even thought about,let alone see, or recognise the psychosis, they cause, but wont admit to, the depression and insanity in a poison they forcefully inject, in fact they add more of the cause, with a permanent poisoning(managing) aim, to the street drug cause,and, instead of ethically letting the drugs causing the psychosis eliminate from the sufferers body, they top it up,turn it up, blinkers on, to fix their temporarily street drug effected victims. how sick is that. about as sick, ignorant, arrogant and abusive, as ya get, i reckon. like a street drug dealer in a white coat. with an authrity from the government to drug the planet and not be answerable to anyone but themselves. they know like anyone knows, joes drugs are as bad as freds drugs, white coat or not, and drugs are a crutch for a sprained leg, not quadraplegia.we evolve and grow as we mature, change the behaviours/environment/ coircumstances, etc, causinjg the thinking feeling problems, (drugs, alcohol), take advice, ""unless"" were weighed down by a forced drug adminitered by a psychiatrist, that prevents that happening. but will claim it doesnt, even though the victim and their family has real tears in their eyes, and a breaking heart, from the horrible treatment they are being forced to take.all apparenly necessary.Sadly, there is only a system that makes people take drugs, and not a system that helps them get away from drugs, all drugs. and to sit there in arrogance and ignorance and not recognise the despair and the need in the individual, their right not be or feel burdened by a debilitating drug, as reported by the victim and their family, is truly a crime. As a society we all know implicitly that mind altering drugs are bad, but for some reason we accept by far the most debilitating of all drugs, "psychotropics", as a good drug.or evil but necessary. a necessary that cant be proven wrong, because the people administering it, selling it, tell us so. The psyches, the TGA, the drug companies and shareholders, mental health, and the Govrenment authorities and their cronies.main stream media, all in bed together, backing each other up no matter the challenge, or the cost. even to the point that they cut out the talking nurturing care that was/is actually helping them overcome, and was continually exposing their drug dealing abuses reported by their clients to their counsellors and psychologists. That's what stopping the access to therapy, psychology and counselling are about, selling more sickness and management poisons, poisons that stop the victims thinking and feeling, positive and healthy, not the compliant, just the non compliant and drug resistant, the common sense in amongst the madness victims, Why? you can always drug a bunny or a compliant ( in the club compliant), its easy they want it, believe in it, trust it, but you cant drug the not so helpless and the non compliant, those that intrinsically know , and from the horrible effect, that mind altering drugs are bad, in the main or reality, because in the main they are non reality, especially long term, let alone short term for some, so lets make it compulsory. and call all them, oppressed and against, wisely drug resistant, UN- insightful or anasognosiacs. and just let the ball that's crushing us all, no one more than the victim. keep rolling.

Colin,

I can't begin to tell you how offensive comments like "Bloody grow up" are when it comes to mental health issues. My first thought (as someone with GAD) is 'oh, what a bloody great idea, why didn't I think of that?'. Read that with as much sarcasm as you can muster. Preferably also with a condescending tone equal to your own.

You seem to fail to recognise depression as an illness that requires treatment. There are certainly areas where people with depression will need to undergo some personal growth, but correlating this with childish immaturity in the way you do is itself incredibly immature.

Why don't overweight people just stop being overweight? Clearly if the problem was that simple, there would be no overweight people.

As for being in control of what we remember, why must it be a 'who' question? (It is a more likely a ''what' question). Nobody is asserting that someone else makes us remember things. I would certainly not assert that I choose to remember certain things as much as would not say that I choose to forget things. If I could choose that I wouldn't forget anything, yet it turns out I have a terrible memory. Indeed some people involuntarily remove traumatic experiences, like rape, from their memory. There's no choice in that.

Tanya, Nick - I know what I am going to ask may seem bizarre but just yesterday with my wife went to see and was really moved by the new movie "Silver Linings Storybook" (Bradley COOPER, Jennifer LAWRENCE, Robert de NIRO, Jackie WEAVER). It seemed that the two lead characters are dealing with the avoidance of medication while speaking straight - in a world of euphemism and politeness. There was something so noble and admirable in that struggle to be self, true to self. And as portrayed in the film. Does it ring true to you, though, I wonder?

Hi Colin, The reason I didn't mention inheritance was because that's not what we were talking about, we were talking about how peoples behaviours and words influence others, like im trying to do with you now, and how I was saying that the people who set those behaviour examples, create behaviours and feelings in others, which is a fact, and for that I apportioned blame to the person setting that example, and Colin if that doesn't happen, someone needs to tell all the advertising companies. I dont know if its about blame as much as its just bad luck or good luck, we are each responsible for what we do and say, so blame until the cows come home, the problem stays with the person with the problem, until it doesn't any more, evolve, mature, learn, but to say we dont create thinking and feeling and behaviour in people, is one of the strangest things ive ever heard, and that these people who have set that example aren't to blame, aren't part of the cause, haven't been a catalyst by their example,again very strange, It sounds as though your one of these parents who dont accept any responsibility for their kids condition, behaviours and thinking, and then there are parents who do, that makes me and you, two different people, with different ideas about blame, cause, responsibility, this is what psychiatry is doing to all their victims, causing all this despair in them, and blaming a subjectively imagined condition, transient and caused by street drugs, that is going away with the right non invasive care and sleep, before its doing anything, unless it is "turned up" with far worse debilitating drugs that they poison them forcefully with, and never let them escape from, and if they do try, it just sends them back to their tormentor to start the abuse cycle all over again, so I dont know how you worked that out Colin, quite clearly, someone else's immoral behaviour, has created a sad, despairing feeling and thinking and behaviour in its victim , that a fact and a truth that the criminal who caused it is denying too Colin. Which is what all tyrants do when they are guilty of a crime, deny their crime, So all the people in history that have suffered at the hands of a tyrant, none of their thinking or feeling has in any way been influenced, or effected by the oppressors who have oppressed them, tortured them with their inhumane behaviour. Your facts/truth as you put/see them, are yours alone Colin, im just stating my facts and my truth as I see them. Just because something doesn't sit right in your head, doesn't mean it doesn't sit right in mine.

Hi Kim,

thanks for all your replies. I did not know this about Epilim.

One of the big problems as I see it, having worked in the drug field for 20 years is that the knowledge nearly all doctors, psychiatrists, and researchers have about all the illegal and pharmaceutical drugs is book knowledge, which is empty knowledge.

We would not accept being taught how to drive a car by someone who had read lots of books about how to drive a car, but hadn't actually driven one.

Yet doctors and psychiatrists prescribe drugs they know nothing about, except what they have read in books.

In my experience when I have told a doctor, psychiatrist or researcher that a drug does this or that, and it does not match what they have read, they just tell me I am wrong!

One anti-depressant I tried was EXACTLY the same as exstacy for me. But I was told this was an irresponsible thing to say.

The Christian religion, like all the religions, has a lot of wisdom in its teachings.

Forgiveness is a big one.

If someone hits you, it hurts for awhile then the pain goes away. If someone hurts you emotionally, it is up to you how long you allow it to hurt.

Our world is full of people, groups, and nations, who cling onto the hurt others have done to them, for a lifetime, even generations.

Why we do this, hang onto pain and suffering is a big issue.

What I have learned lately is that psychological wounds actually become embedded in the body. I think depression caused by psychological truama and suffering cannot be released by just talking, by cognitive behavioural therapies.

It was only when I ripped past trauma out of my emotional body that I was finally released from 30 years of depression.

Sigmund Freud and others taught us about the existence of the unconscious. The feeling I get, from the outside, is that our awareness of the unconscious and its role in our lives has been almost erased from psychology and psychiatry.

And all these drugs they try to make us take only block our ability to communicate with our unconscious, with our emotional selves.

This business of being a human is an amazing journey, and so brief. We just have to try to learn as much as possible!

Thanks again Kim, for responding with such respect. The stigma around "mental illness" fills both sufferers and others with such fear. It is wonderful just to discuss it all in an open way.

yours
Nick

Thank you Murray.

We have to talk about it. It is the silence and the isolation this brings that leads to far too many people suffering and killing themselves.

Too many of us treat anyone going through emotional turmoil, disturbance or illness as lepers, not through nastiness but through fear and ignorance.

I speak up because every time I do people tell me that it helps them understand that they are not a freak, not alone, and not a hopeless case.

It is not drugs humans need when they struggle, it is love, support, and someone, even just one person, willing to listen, to listen to their story. Not offer advice, just listening.

Hi Colin, I agree with a lot of what your saying , I can see your meaning, I like your passion and realness, sincerity, I understand where your coming from,and i get it. im sorry for being so unkind, I realise im in a bad place because of my obsession with mental health, period, and im just too angry because of it, it possesses me, and i posses it, because it possesses me. and others. Example-I wrote up to posses me on the last line, and was going to stop there, drifted for a second, and all of a sudden I thought about all the pain they're causing, and my heart started going really fast as I reflected and typed the words "and others" that's what its like,24/7 sometimes for weeks, I even had to stop myself going on about the "and others", as my blood pumped even harder, even though, just a quick mention, babies,kids, and teenagers, young adults, and the elderly. I've had too many wars mate that's the trouble, and ive got some real problems with MH right at the moment, that's why im full on right now, but that doesn't excuse me for any nastiness to others, or probably even them, considering honey gets the bear, sorry or is it bee, its like im growling at the naughty bears,bees, far more than naughty though, I cant give them honey whilst there killing people and lives in the name of health,I wish I could tell them that, and get them to see, to stop what their doing, well not that entirely, I know they're helping some, but they should, if they have any decency whatsoever, at least, give the people who are saying they cant cope with/on (their) psychotropic medication, and who also believe that no matter what anyone says, they will never agree with it, or the diagnosis, and will always want to get away because of how it makes them feel and think, and should, without doubt, under any "caring persons sense of right", or fairness, at least be given that fair and honest chance, test, or call it an attempt to make that happen, in order to see not only if they(the client) are wrong, or right,and because of the "reported real sad bad feeling of their client", a real person, with real feelings and thoughts just like you and me, and also if the said tormentors (the treating team) are wrong or right, even more so,be given that right, and i dont care what any human being says about that, no matter what they say, will it change what im saying, from being right,or what theyre doing from being wrong, and from what you see every day in print , in the media whole, the despair and sadness on the faces of those non compliant non believers forced to endure,youd have to have blinkers on, or be one of them. not to see it and agree.\
The saddest part about it all is that they need the help of the very people afflicting them to come away fromm the affliction, the very people that afflict them, to help them( the victim) prove them( the victim) right,or wrong, and at the same time prove themselves ( the drug dealing psychiatrists) wrong,or right,can you see them all lining up to do that,being honest and real, not likely, gotta keep the lie called scientific truth, alive, the truth that is the despair of its victims. the trouble is the planets starting to fill with them, and their blinker wearing believers, really quick, and i know we have to act now before its 1984.And were all on government soma.with a chip in our brains.
Out of this I feel like ive learnt a lesson,its like you've got to have them good in you, not so much in them, more in you, if you know what i mean.a bit like you owe it to yourself to keep good in you, regardless of their bad, bad in you is bad in you, take care of you first, and the bad in them wont enter you, and wedge itself between the words, the message, and the love that heals the bad in them, and keeps you safe secure, and ok,- apart from that,and on another level, thems them, they get what they see, like we all do.
The words about the parent thing I said, was horrible, im really sorry, especially for that Colin, it was bad form, and your an ok bloke,i wish i could put my opinion out there without going into podium mode, kamikaze or something style, :). Everyone in here are nice people, they sure seem nice, your one of them, please be cool with me, and stay cool for you, John

Kim and Peter, my experience is that yapping to the whitecoat is a useful adjunct to antidepressants - depending on the therapy offered. The psychologist who wanted to analyse my childhood wasn't too helpful. The doctor who helped me learn how to recognise the physical symptoms of a rising anxiety or depression episode so I can take action, discuss what non-drug actions seem to work to balance me back up and what others I could try, and learn to identify and redirect unhelpful though patterns, was frankly a godsend. I know from experience that I can't function without the happy pills, but I am still very sub-optimal even with them if I don't take this holistic approach to managing my health.

Unless your depression is of the melancholia type - which basicaly means you were born with it, it's part of you - you should only ever need drugs if you are in such a state that you can'get out of bed, or similar. Most SSRI-type drugs will get you out of bed, and up and about again within 5 days or so. But to stay on drugs for a much longer period will in most cases be irresponsible overkill by the medico. If your (unipolar) depression is not something you've had all your life, and just creeps up on you, once you're out of bed, the focus needs to be on what happened in your life recently that saw you take this unusual turn of sadness and inability to get out bed? That answer will not come from a year's supply of Prozac, let alone a lifetime supply!

OTOH, if the whitecoats says you melancholic, and in your bones you agree, then just throw down as many happy pills as they'll feed you.

Do women BEGIN to use depression medication MORE at menopause ?
"Clinical depression was also found to be two-and-a-half times more likely during the transition to menopause."

Do women who receive hysterectomies manifest depression at a higher rate ?
"Conclusion: Hysterectomy increases the risk of MDE"

Do women who lose their menses due to birth control manifest depression at a higher rate ?
"New research shows women taking the oral contraceptive pill are almost twice as likely to be depressed as those who do not."

"Premenopausal hysterectomy is associated with increased brain ferritin iron"

Is increased brain iron being investigated in depression ?
"From a previous study on suicidal depression victims, a clear
correlation between iron level and strand breaks in the brain regions could be observed (Mustak et al. 2010).
Hence, the assessment of the iron metabolism in the cases with
neuropsychiatric problem might be useful. Due to the possibility of co-morbidity between iron overload and neuropsychiatric disorder, the iron study should be done in all cases presenting with depressive disorder (Koch et al. 2012)."