The presence of “trolls” in online forums is often portrayed as a blight on constructive debate, but a recent stoush indicates political discussion by antagonistic online users may not be all bad.
You may have read about the recent war of words between Opposition communications spokesperson Malcolm Turnbull, the national business daily, the Australian Financial Review (AFR), and Minister for Communications Senator Stephen Conroy.
The topic of discussion: the quality of reporting and commentary about the National Broadband Network (NBN) infrastructure project.
Yesterday the AFR reported Turnbull as having said technology journalists were fanning a pro-NBN zealotry among tech-savvy citizens who wanted the ultimate broadband regardless of more feasible alternatives.
It follows up comments made by Senator Conroy at a recent press conference about NBN Co’s new corporate plan. Conroy expressed a preference for a thread on the Australian broadband user website Whirlpool over the AFR when it came to NBN coverage:
For those interested in a comprehensive discussion of the issues I can recommend to you the Whirlpool website and particularly the thread titled ‘Fighting the FUD'.
It is a very informative thread and I would encourage you to have a look at it. It does address a few of the issues that we debate regularly.
Analyse this
Prompted by Senator Conroy’s comments and as part of an ongoing interest in the nature of online political discussion – with a specific focus on practices commonly regarded as “trolling” – we have surveyed recent stories in the AFR on the issue.
Our analysis of 51 published articles mentioning Senator Conroy over approximately the past six weeks indicates the AFR is certainly not a fan of the high-speed internet infrastructure project, nor of the Senator.
In all stories on Conroy, there were only four positive headlines and 18 neutral ones – 29 (more than 53%) – were negative. (A Google spreadsheet with all the data is available here.)
A number of headlines personally attacked the minister: Conroy does a Comical Ali compared him with the delusional Iraqi information minister; and Conroy slow off-piste contained an ironic allusion to his skiing holidays with media moguls.
The NBN itself was described in the AFR’s headlines as: “hopelessly behind targets”, “a big picture idea that still looks a bit fuzzy”, and a “broadband mess”.
Most discussions were premised on the idea that the project was a failure in the making.
The few positive stories did not praise Conroy, but instead offered guarded and isolated accounts of pleased users, or events which may or may not drive subscriptions to the network. So Conroy has no reason to be pleased by the AFR’s coverage.
A mixed bag
Certainly, discussion of the NBN on Whirlpool is not as unremittingly hostile as in the AFR, although it certainly features vocal critics of the infrastructure project. The difference is that it takes the form of an ongoing, multifaceted debate in which supporters of the project are on-hand, and able to engage with detractors on the details of the plan.
The Whirlpool thread mentioned by Senator Conroy features users discussing, and frequently disputing, the details and relative merits of the NBN. To date this thread has extended over ten separate parts.
(A common practice on forums is to break off a thread when it reaches a large number of pages, and begin a “new” thread as an extension of the old one.)
A shorter version that indicates the character of discussion about the NBN on Whirlpool is this thread discussing IT news outlet Delimiter’s article about Conroy preferring Whirlpool over the AFR. Here, as in the longer threads, users cycle around familiar disagreements on the political, technological and financial aspects of the NBN.
Often, as is the case in so many online forums, this debate is ill-tempered or repetitive. Occasionally users are mean-spirited or deliberately disruptive. Long-standing participants do not shift their positions – these users are not interested in a deliberative compromise, or in altering their political commitments or allegiances.
The forums are not an ideal deliberative-democratic space in which rational consensus emerges. Indeed, there is often enough behaviour which might be regarded as trolling – where users are deliberately and gratuitously confrontational, make ad hominem arguments, or attempt to derail or obfuscate debate.
What Senator Conroy may have realised, though, is that, as in other online forums, this kind of conflict is not simply negative in its effects. Indeed, we can think about its forms of conflict and antagonism as generative and productive.
The rolling confrontation between opponents and proponents of the NBN produces more nuanced and detailed arguments than are often found in mainstream reporting, even if this detail does not emerge in the coherent and linear format of newspaper reporting and analysis.
Conroy is right to recognise that the Whirlpool threads on the NBN are one of the richer repositories of publicly available information on the project. But this is precisely because they are a site of relentless conflict about the value of the investment.
Dissing the point
Mainstream media often dismisses online forums, blogs and social media as constituting any sort of viable alternative to traditionally constituted, “quality” print and broadcast media. One of the reasons often given is the intemperate nature of online discussion, which is connected by critics with their easy accessibility, their lack of gatekeepers, and the anonymity or pseudonymity that they afford to users.
There is, at the moment, what can only be characterised as a global moral panic about “internet trolls”, a phrase that in the hands of the mainstream media can encompass a wide range of conflictual or antagonistic behaviours online.
But clearly, relationships of antagonism pervade contemporary democracies – indeed democracy is seen by some theorists as either a means of resolving inevitable conflict, or as only authentic where it is “agonistic”.
In the case of Conroy and the AFR, we can see an antagonistic relationship which might not only be necessary, but a good sign journalists are carrying out an appropriately forensic and adversarial form of policy scrutiny.
The question to be asked of the AFR reportage is whether the ultimate goal of the reporting on the NBN and Conroy personally is policy analysis or simply adversarial. In whose interests is it for the AFR’s readers to be presented with a continually adversarial engagement with the NBN project?
At a micro level, the Whirlpool threads offer one example of the way in which online debate, open to all-comers, can produce high quality, accessible policy information and debate.
David Howard
Home Duties
I would make two points.
1) It is not appropriate to judge a media based on the number of positive reports vs the number of negative ones. I am confident reports on subjects like "the people's forum" were overwhelming adversarial, that does not mean they were not appropriate policy analysis.
2) An on-line discussion amongst the users of Whirlpool might be long and detailed but will undoubtedly produce a majority of users describing the benefits giving them greater weight than the problems and…
Read moreGlen Fuller
Assistant Professor of Communication and Journalism at University of Canberra
Hi David,
Thanks for your comment.
If you look at the Whirlpool threads, you shall see that it is not about favouring one perspective over another, but that there are entrenched positive and *negative* views of the NBN. The point we make above is that this provides potentially better policy analysis than a single-sided view. You should read the Whirlpool threads and the AFR articles and judge for yourself.
Weighing positive and negative headlines in the AFR is a quick way to see whether coverage is balanced or not. We only focused on the headlines in this piece, but it is indicative of a certain quality of reporting that is more interested in maintaining a consistent editorial line than anything else. (If I have time during the day I shall endeavour to find some examples.) Again, readers of the AFR can make up their own minds regarding whether or not this consistent editorial line is 'business intelligence' or merely an ideological pat on the back.
Doug Green
logged in via email @gmail.com
I think Whirlpool is a potentially valuable source of information but it does require patience and perseverance. The truth is there to be divined between the entrenched positions of the positive and negative sides, and the links/quotations/facts they bring to support their arguments, and the mountain of unsupported, politically motivated, dreck in-between. Whirlpool probably features the most thorough delineation of the positive and negative cases in the argument, and also the most thorough rebuttal…
Read moreEdward Reynolds
PhD Student in Communication and Social Interaction at University of Queensland
I think you are conflating Forums and print and online-print forms of media. As you point out they have very different forms of participation, and more importantly one set is designed to be broadcast and the other not.
Read moreEven though online news pages are not strictly broadcast (nor is print in a literal sense) they are designed for many readers.
Arguments on a forum thread are designed for the thread and in particular in reply to a particular post. They may well be as researched, or better, than…
Doug Green
logged in via email @gmail.com
No, I am not conflating forums and print and online-forms of media, except in so far as Conroy invites us to so do. I am however comparing them.To a certain extent these different media tend to blur their own boundaries in the sense that, say, forums/group discussion/commentary is often invited and corollary to online renditions of traditional media such as newspapers. Thus online versions of traditional media often 'broadcast' their news and invite commentary/debate from their viewers below…
Read moreMark A Gregory
Senior Lecturer in Electrical and Computer Engineering at RMIT University
Whirlpool has a ban on links to articles on The Conversation, possibly a bit of a literary faux pas to write an article using Whirlpool as a place where people can openly discuss and present analysis and comment?
Luke Weston
Physicist / electronic engineer
Why do they have that rule?
Glen Fuller
Assistant Professor of Communication and Journalism at University of Canberra
Hi Mark,
Thank you for your comment. I wasn't aware of this rule.
Senator Conroy used the example of the Whirlpool thread and we investigated the context of the point he was making. We didn't 'choose' Whirlpool per se.
Angus McInnes
MSc (Physics) student at University of Melbourne
A quick Google search finds plenty of links to The Conversation from Whirlpool forums, including some quite recent ones, and no mention of a ban. Could you provide more information?
Mark A Gregory
Senior Lecturer in Electrical and Computer Engineering at RMIT University
Hi Angus,
yes, it appears there are discrepancies there. Recently one of the The Lounge areas of whirlpool rejected a post I made. The moderator 11T.Co stated the following
I received feedback from one section moderator and 2 full moderators, and the consensus is that your link is not a valid news source as I originally explained to you.
One particular response I received said: [""Reading the 'article' it is far closer to a blog post than a genuine news article."]
["A snippet on the page next to the article reads:"]
['The Conversation provides independent analysis and commentary from academics and researchers.']
["They're giving their opinions, not reporting news."]
I'm sorry but my decision to delete your thread was valid and as I said earlier, you are welcome to start another thread using a valid news source.
It is a pity that an Australian website like Whirlpool is not The Conversation friendly.
David Boxall
logged in via Facebook
I gave up on Whirlpool long ago. The moderation is, to say the least, capricious.
Comment removed by moderator.
Comment removed by moderator.
Richard Ure
logged in via Facebook
There do seem to be two levels of moderation. Getting a thread started can be hard work; commenting on an existing thread seems to be less rigorously monitored.
Craig Minns
Self-employed
They have lots of posts from the conversation, but the rules for the "In the News" lounge are clear: the original post must link to a news source, not an opinion site.
Dan Nolan
logged in via Twitter
Whirlpool is also a great place for Men's rights activists.
Jason Wilson
University of Canberra
Really Dan? Could you tell us more about your involvement in the Mens' Rights movement?
Dan Nolan
logged in via Twitter
I wouldn't be able to speak to it as I lack experience I assume you have in the field but I feel maybe looking over the other aspects of the forum before linking people to it might be of value in future.
Jason Wilson
University of Canberra
Okay thanks for that Dan that's a really valuable insight.
Dan Nolan
logged in via Twitter
Glad to participate in the conversation.
Dan Nolan
logged in via Twitter
I would also like to say that these are some good words and they are put together well and in the right order and everything.
Rodger Kensen
Systems Analyst
At first I wondered what you were on about, but now I get you are displaying what it takes to be a shining example of how to be a troll. Congratulations. Job well done.
Liam Hogan
logged in via Twitter
This is a good article Glen and Jason and thumbs up to both of you.
I wonder though how you'd go about making a comparison of similarities between the AFR's coverage and discussion at sites like Whirlpool (or any other forum), thinking in particular of the pleasure in itself that participants enjoy through continual adversariality?
It seems to me that there's a possibility that the coverage of the AFR and other papers bears less similarity to a discursive agonistic space of contestion of policy analysis, than an internet forum in which the journalists are having fun being deliberately troublesome and---as you say about Whirlpool posters---being ill-tempered and repetitive.
Ben Harris-Roxas
logged in via Twitter
Thanks for that point Liam. I think this link raises some salient points that address your question http://benhr.net/PBucdT
Peter Ormonde
Peter Ormonde is a Friend of The Conversation.
Farmer
One of the better aspects of the interweb is that it can flush out people who actually know something, a more informed critique or a different perspective.Whirlpool is certainly a place where every now and again one comes across such comments. The Conversation moreso.
Less so - infinitely less - is Crikey - where by and large the discussions rapidly degenerate into partisan slanging-matches, personal abuse and repetitive mantras. This is quite tragic actually - the conservative side of politics…
Read morePeter Ormonde
Peter Ormonde is a Friend of The Conversation.
Farmer
PS ... Folks with an interest in these matters might like to keep an eye on this - or even better stick in a oar of informed opinion:
http://fibreculturejournal.org/cfp-special-issue-for-the-fibreculture-journal-the-politics-of-trolling-and-the-negative-space-of-the-internet/
Ben Harris-Roxas
logged in via Twitter
Terrific link Peter, thanks.
Rodger Kensen
Systems Analyst
Add to that "The Punch" - it's the conservative version of Crikey where debate is non-existent an abuse the norm. In fact add any of the Murdoch owned comments pages to that list.
For quality discussions on the NBN, ZDNet has a dedicated NBN thread and both sides of the debate seem to be well represented there.
Tim Scanlon
Debunker
As a rural WA user of the internet, I can't wait to upgrade from my tin cans and piece of string to actual broadband.
The thing that isn't being discussed and concerns me is the recent introduction and continued push for internet filtering. First we have ISPs having to archive user data "just in case we need to invade your privacy", next we have ISPs denying access to certain servers and regions. The internet filter is still being brought in, as is the blacklist which will be arbitrary and undisclosed with no right of repeal.
About time we discussed this point before it gets snuck through with the NBN.
Edward Reynolds
PhD Student in Communication and Social Interaction at University of Queensland
The fascinating thing about the internet is the way in such long-standing forms of debate and democracy are made more public. Rather than arguments on a street corner on in the pub such debates gain a curious form a-synchronicity which extends their reach ever so slightly.
Read moreAs the authors rightly note its no perfect public sphere (nor indeed would i think we would ever find such a reified thing) but it certainly is a more lateral form of participation that allows a greater access...to those with…
Gary Looney
Person
I highly recommend whirlpool for Technical information around the workings of Internet connections and accessories.
Whirlpool is far too overrepresented with company interests to be a serous measure of political or service related question. Senator Conroy knows this, and seems happy to pick, choose and favour for political advantage as suits.
Whirlpool can be useful as a discussion forum for questions that do not go to service standards or policy unfavourable to major companies. Trolling to discredit such questioning is done by Employee, contractors, loyal customers and family members of ISP and Government.
I include Senator Conroy as a business friend of certain Discrediting/Cleaning Trolls.