tag:theconversation.com,2011:/fr/topics/evel-13647/articlesEVEL – The Conversation2016-09-16T12:25:14Ztag:theconversation.com,2011:article/655132016-09-16T12:25:14Z2016-09-16T12:25:14ZTwo years after Scotland’s vote, support for independence is stuck in the mud<figure><img src="https://images.theconversation.com/files/137985/original/image-20160915-30614-1r5z7p8.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=496&fit=clip" /><figcaption><span class="caption">
</span> <span class="attribution"><a class="source" href="http://www.shutterstock.com/pic-54427720/stock-photo-four-wheel-truck-stuck-in-mud.html?src=lsthVYbcnznqCBQAE41zLA-1-8">James Edwards</a></span></figcaption></figure><p>September 18 marks the second anniversary of the <a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/events/scotland-decides/results">Scottish independence referendum</a>, perhaps the most intense, exciting and fascinating period in the country’s political history. And despite the No vote, it’s certainly not business as usual in Scotland. So what has changed in the past two years, and where next?</p>
<p>The political divide north and south of the border has been steadily growing since the referendum. Most important is arguably the <a href="http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2016/11/pdfs/ukpga_20160011_en.pdf">extra powers</a> on their way to Scotland. From next April, all Scottish income tax revenue will go to the Scottish government, along with the power to create and alter bands. </p>
<p>The Left sees the possibility of generating extra revenues to tackle austerity and social justice. For all sides, it’s an added incentive to grow the economy to increase the tax take. </p>
<p>Yet the economy looks weak compared to the rest of the UK – <a href="https://www.sbs.strath.ac.uk/economics/fraser/20160913/ScotlandsBudget-2016.pdf">with probably</a> the worst fiscal picture since 2007. With some social security powers devolving too, the Scottish government faces challenging spending decisions that probably mean cuts. </p>
<h2>X marks the spot</h2>
<p>The constitutional divide has been just as clear at the ballot box. The message from the Scottish public at the <a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election/2015/results/scotland">2015 UK election</a> was that the SNP were best placed to keep up the pressure on the Cameron government to deliver on devolution. When the party won nearly 50% of the Scottish vote, winning a remarkable 56 of 59 Scottish seats, unionist Scottish Labour were the main losers. </p>
<p>Meanwhile, the Conservatives won at UK level by playing up the threat from an SNP-backed minority Labour government to stability, security and territorial integrity. Critics of the Conservatives said the real threat to territorial integrity was campaign posters like the one of Labour leader Ed Miliband dancing like a puppet as the SNP’s Alex Salmond played the flute. </p>
<p>In the same vein has been the Conservatives’ introduction of English votes for English laws. This system of excluding non-English MPs from purely English matters <a href="https://www.holyrood.com/articles/news/westminster-passes-english-votes-english-laws-0">became law</a> last autumn, and critics <a href="http://www.itv.com/news/2016-01-12/english-votes-for-english-laws-is-driving-scotland-out-of-the-uk-snp-mp-claims/">have said</a> it effectively makes non-English MPs second class. </p>
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<a href="https://images.theconversation.com/files/137989/original/image-20160915-30575-13yb33t.png?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=1000&fit=clip"><img alt="" src="https://images.theconversation.com/files/137989/original/image-20160915-30575-13yb33t.png?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=754&fit=clip" srcset="https://images.theconversation.com/files/137989/original/image-20160915-30575-13yb33t.png?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=600&h=389&fit=crop&dpr=1 600w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/137989/original/image-20160915-30575-13yb33t.png?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=30&auto=format&w=600&h=389&fit=crop&dpr=2 1200w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/137989/original/image-20160915-30575-13yb33t.png?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=15&auto=format&w=600&h=389&fit=crop&dpr=3 1800w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/137989/original/image-20160915-30575-13yb33t.png?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=754&h=488&fit=crop&dpr=1 754w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/137989/original/image-20160915-30575-13yb33t.png?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=30&auto=format&w=754&h=488&fit=crop&dpr=2 1508w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/137989/original/image-20160915-30575-13yb33t.png?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=15&auto=format&w=754&h=488&fit=crop&dpr=3 2262w" sizes="(min-width: 1466px) 754px, (max-width: 599px) 100vw, (min-width: 600px) 600px, 237px"></a>
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<span class="caption">Take your partners …</span>
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<p>And yet the Scottish Conservatives unexpectedly ousted Labour to become Holyrood’s second largest party at this year’s <a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election/2016/scotland">Scottish election</a>. Under Ruth Davidson, whose personal ratings have <a href="http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14747283.Ruth_Davidson_overtakes_Nicola_Sturgeon_in_new_opinion_poll/">just overtaken</a> first minister Nicola Sturgeon’s, the Conservatives arguably succeeded through positioning themselves as best placed to defend the union. </p>
<p>One look at the electoral map gives a good indication of what happened: the Conservatives appealed to middle class No voters in places like Aberdeenshire, East Renfrewshire and Edinburgh. It was another sign that most Scottish politics has been viewed through the constitutional prism since the indyref. Scottish Labour has failed to adapt, tending to insist that policy issues not be treated as constitutional issues. </p>
<p>These trends seem likely to continue at the local elections next year. All eyes will be on whether Labour can cling to control of <a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-17953270">Glasgow City Council</a>. </p>
<h2>Post-Brexit</h2>
<p>When 62% of Scots voted Remain in the <a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/politics/eu_referendum/results">EU referendum</a> as the UK voted Brexit, it undoubtedly shifted the political goalposts. The Better Together campaign’s <a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-21293490">assurances</a> in 2014 that voting No would secure EU membership for Scotland now look hollow. So too the assertion that the UK represented the most stable choice for <a href="https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/sep/12/uk-economy-near-standstill-brexit-vote-hits-investment-bcc">Scotland’s economy</a>. The Brexit vote <a href="http://www.snp.org/five_times_westminster_ignored_scotland_s_democratic_decisions">also revived</a> old complaints about a democratic deficit in Scotland. These factors could all make a second referendum a rather different affair.</p>
<p>The pro-independence movement looks more prepared than in 2014, too: recent launches include activist platform <a href="https://www.commonspace.scot/articles/9049/commonsocial-has-landed-scotlands-new-social-network-launches">Common Social</a> and the <a href="http://nationalyesregistry.scot">National Yes Registry</a>, a tool to help dormant pro-independence groups organise. <a href="http://www.womenforindependence.org">Women For Independence</a> and the socialist <a href="http://www.allofusfirst.org">Common Weal</a> are <a href="https://www.commonspace.scot/articles/9304/common-weal-launches-drive-new-independence-white-paper">thriving</a>, while online news outlet <a href="https://www.commonspace.scot/articles/9304/common-weal-launches-drive-new-independence-white-paper">CommonSpace</a> has shown you can be both pro-independence and critical of the SNP. </p>
<p>The only problem is public sentiment. The SNP <a href="http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14432723.Second_referendum_only_if_MOST_Scots_want_it__Sturgeon_confirms/">long talked</a> about Brexit being the “material change in circumstances” to justify another referendum, and Nicola Sturgeon <a href="https://theconversation.com/scottish-independence-back-in-play-after-brexit-shock-with-a-note-of-caution-61457">signalled</a> as much immediately after the EU referendum. Yet the SNP’s <a href="http://www.snp.org/manifesto">2016 manifesto</a> first also wanted evidence of clear, sustained support for independence – generally <a href="http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/snp-60-support-needed-before-next-independence-referendum-1-3920508">seen as</a> the 60% bracket. </p>
<p><a href="http://whatscotlandthinks.org/opinion-polls">After the Brexit vote</a>, polling showed a slim majority for independence. <a href="http://whatscotlandthinks.org/opinion-polls">Since then</a>, Scotland has reverted to narrowly leaning towards the union – not what the SNP might have hoped for at this stage. There are probably a number of reasons. EU membership is <a href="http://lordashcroftpolls.com/2016/06/how-the-united-kingdom-voted-and-why/">likely</a> of minor importance to most Scots and, at this stage, unlikely to be a massive gamechanger. A sizeable proportion of SNP/independence voters <a href="http://lordashcroftpolls.com/2016/06/how-the-united-kingdom-voted-and-why/">also voted</a> to leave the EU, <a href="http://www.snp.org/pb_what_is_the_snp_s_position_on_the_eu">contrary</a> to party policy. </p>
<p>Perhaps most importantly, <a href="https://theconversation.com/independent-scotland-might-get-away-with-a-high-deficit-if-its-feeling-lucky-64409">recent figures</a> suggest an independent Scotland’s fiscal deficit would exceed 9% of GDP compared to the UK’s circa 4% – considerably worse than in 2014. The North Sea oil decline is hitting Scotland hard. Many “soft” No voters are <a href="http://blog.whatscotlandthinks.org/2016/09/has-brexit-not-had-much-impact-on/">more worried</a> about deeper spending cuts and higher taxes to meet spending commitments than EU membership. </p>
<h2>Sturgeon’s dilemma</h2>
<p>The conundrum is how to turn this sentiment around. To that end, the SNP recently launched a <a href="http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/02/nicola-sturgeon-snp-listening-exercise-europe-brexit-scottish-independence">listening exercise</a> around independence. The party faces a dilemma, however. To call a referendum, it needs to maintain a pro-independence majority in Holyrood. But if a majority continue to favour the union, it risks alienating the very voters it wishes to attract to independence. So it needs to walk a middle ground. </p>
<p>One possible route to independence might be the UK economy taking a significant nosedive post-Brexit. Many chose No in 2014 believing an independent Scottish economy would perform less well. A tanking UK economy might make independence look the safer option. </p>
<p>Alternatively, the prospect of an increased Tory majority at the next UK election could galvanise a Yes vote from Scottish antipathy to the party dating back to Margaret Thatcher. But given the Conservatives’ recent electoral performance in Scotland, you wouldn’t bank on it. </p>
<p>So if the SNP thought Brexit had given them an open goal for independence, it certainly doesn’t look that way. Winning a majority at a future referendum looks tough, perhaps even unlikely.</p><img src="https://counter.theconversation.com/content/65513/count.gif" alt="The Conversation" width="1" height="1" />
<p class="fine-print"><em><span>Craig McAngus does not work for, consult, own shares in or receive funding from any company or organisation that would benefit from this article, and has disclosed no relevant affiliations beyond their academic appointment.</span></em></p>How to shift those stubborn opinion polls?Craig McAngus, Lecturer in Politics, University of AberdeenLicensed as Creative Commons – attribution, no derivatives.tag:theconversation.com,2011:article/500992015-11-03T11:31:43Z2015-11-03T11:31:43ZFirst EVEL bill debated in the Commons but MPs still aren’t clear how it will work<p>The House of Commons <a href="http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201516/cmagenda/OP151102.pdf">Order Paper</a> doesn’t usually create too much commotion. Nor would the second reading of the <a href="http://services.parliament.uk/bills/2015-16/housingandplanning.html">Housing and Planning Bill</a> ordinarily incite much anticipation. Admittedly, the bill under discussion was important – it will extend the right to buy and make changes to the planning system and local council’s abilities to deal with unscrupulous landlords. </p>
<p>But what really attracted attention was – unfortunately – not the policy area, but the procedure through which it would be examined by MPs. For this was the first bill to go through the new English Votes for English Laws (EVEL) system of scrutiny which was <a href="http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201516/cmhansrd/cm151022/debtext/151022-0002.htm#15102253000003">approved by MPs</a> just 12 days ago. </p>
<p>Under the new procedures the Commons speaker must certify bills, specifying whether they only affect certain regions. A bill may therefore be “England only” or “England and Wales only”. This affects how the bill will be debated and voted on by MPs. Although all MPs can take part in general debates on these bills, an England-only bill can only be scrutinised at committee stage by English MPs and special voting procedures will ensure an extra layer of voting in which English MPs must be in agreement. </p>
<p>This simplified version of the process already sounds complicated, as MPs found out at first-hand on the green benches when the Housing and Planning Bill came before them. Because it’s not just entire bills that can be certified as “England-only” or “England and Wales-only” – individual clauses of a bill can be certified in this way too.</p>
<h2>Cross-border complications</h2>
<p>MPs were unsure precisely which clauses affected England only and the SNP pushed for an explanation as to why certain clauses that seemed to affect Scotland had been certified as England-only. They cited cross-border complications in housing associations, implying that parts of the bill could definitely affect Scotland. To make matters worse, the speaker refused to discuss the decision, feeling that – as is tradition in the House – he should be able to “<a href="http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201516/cmselect/cmproced/410/41005.html">make decisions on certification without explanation</a>”. </p>
<p>After this brief kerfuffle on the floor, the debate on the bill got underway. The six-hour debate was just the Bill’s Second Reading – a general debate on the broader policy issues. Speeches here tend to be quite broad – and whatever the procedure being used, MPs from all parties and all regions can take part in the debate itself.</p>
<p>This included the Scottish National Party spokesman, Alan Brown, along with several of his colleagues. The real nitty gritty of the bill will be discussed in the bill’s committee stage over the next few weeks. And it is here that we will begin to see more of the practicalities of EVEL. Scottish MPs will be banned from sitting on the bill committee. </p>
<h2>Curlicues and arabesques</h2>
<p>Chris Bryant <a href="http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201516/cmhansrd/cm151022/debtext/151022-0003.htm">described the new EVEL process</a> as having “more curlicues, arabesques and flourishes than the whole of the Vatican City put together”. If the debate on this bill so far is anything to go by, we will see many more flourishes of excitement and protest over EVEL certification and voting in the next few months. </p>
<p>The Scotland Bill will be back on the agenda next week – a bill which, as <a href="https://twitter.com/PeteWishart/status/661307119828901888">the SNP keeps reminding us</a>, only applies to Scotland. MPs have spent the past few months arguing about how to stop Scottish MPs voting on English issues, but this is a bill which will see English and Welsh MPs voting on measures to do with Scotland. So we can certainly expect to see more procedural fun and games there. </p>
<p>English votes for English laws offered the solution to a decades-old conundrum in British politics, but – as Hugh McLachlan <a href="https://theconversation.com/english-votes-for-english-laws-is-much-less-sensible-than-it-first-appears-34552">argued recently</a> – restricting voting and scrutiny rights in this way can throw up other paradoxes. The practicalities of it at the moment are anything but straightforward.</p><img src="https://counter.theconversation.com/content/50099/count.gif" alt="The Conversation" width="1" height="1" />
<p class="fine-print"><em><span>Louise Thompson does not work for, consult, own shares in or receive funding from any company or organisation that would benefit from this article, and has disclosed no relevant affiliations beyond their academic appointment.</span></em></p>The first debate under principle of English votes for English laws was largely uneventful but foreshadows problems to come.Louise Thompson, Lecturer in British Politics, University of SurreyLicensed as Creative Commons – attribution, no derivatives.tag:theconversation.com,2011:article/476792015-09-18T05:40:01Z2015-09-18T05:40:01ZOne year on from Scotland’s independence referendum: how to save the union from the unionists<figure><img src="https://images.theconversation.com/files/95077/original/image-20150916-6295-elbb31.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=496&fit=clip" /><figcaption><span class="caption">Unitary we are not</span> <span class="attribution"><a class="source" href="http://www.shutterstock.com/cat.mhtml?lang=en&language=en&ref_site=photo&search_source=search_form&version=llv1&anyorall=all&safesearch=1&use_local_boost=1&autocomplete_id=&searchterm=scottish%20independence&show_color_wheel=1&orient=&commercial_ok=&media_type=images&search_cat=&searchtermx=&photographer_name=&people_gender=&people_age=&people_ethnicity=&people_number=&color=&page=1&inline=219911266">Steve Allen</a></span></figcaption></figure><p>In the wake of the <a href="https://theconversation.com/scotland-decides-14-if-yes-wins-what-happens-next-31254">near-death</a> of the United Kingdom as we know it on September 18 2014, unionists have sought to define the purpose of union, Britishness, “what unites us” and “shared values”. </p>
<p>This new unionism is profoundly misguided. Yet neither of our main parties seems aware of it. </p>
<p>The future of the UK hardly featured in Labour’s recent <a href="http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-corbyn-wins-labour-leadership-election-landslide-victory-over-andy-burnham-yvette-cooper-and-liz-kendall-10497416.html">leadership election</a>, while the Conservatives have been <a href="http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/mar/09/tory-election-poster-ed-miliband-pocket-snp-alex-salmond">flirting with</a> a new English nationalism.</p>
<p>Union has never been one thing, defined and codified. It takes different forms in different places – think of an Orange march in Ulster and a Conservative garden party in the home counties. For many <a href="https://www.natcen.ac.uk/news-media/press-releases/2014/june/being-british-today/">English people</a>, England, Great Britain and the United Kingdom blend imperceptibly into each other. <a href="http://whatscotlandthinks.org/ssa">For Scots</a>, concepts of Scottishness and Britishness are distinct, some feeling only Scottish and most balancing dual British and Scottish identities. </p>
<p>This makes the UK a state in which the very meaning of nationality differs from one part to another. “Britishness” is not something that sits above particular local and cultural identities but is constituted by them. Unitary nation states like France are characterised by a shared national identity, vision of future and view of the past. As a plurinational state, the UK has none of these. </p>
<p>In these circumstances, it is futile and potentially dangerous to the union to try and define it one way, as the new unionism seeks to do. <a href="http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/19/labour-ed-miliband-constitutional-convention">Labour</a> and the <a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-32953249">Liberal Democrats</a> have suggested a constitutional convention, which could only rehearse fundamental differences about the nature of the polity. The unionist parties have presented democracy and liberty as quintessentially British, underpinned by a revived <a href="http://www.age-of-the-sage.org/philosophy/history/whig_interpretation_history.html">Whig history of progress</a>. </p>
<p>For <a href="http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/scottish-independence/scottish-independence-scotland-doesnt-belong-to-the-snp-firedup-gordon-brown-tells-glasgow-9738836.html">the centre left</a>, Britishness underpins concepts of social solidarity and the welfare state. Conservatives <a href="http://news.sky.com/story/1490608/conservative-plan-for-british-bill-of-rights">look to</a> a British Bill of Rights.</p>
<h2>The limits of Britishness</h2>
<p>The problem is that in Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales, many citizens fully share these values but do not feel British. Indeed, these values also underpin their own national projects. Linking civil and social rights to being British ties fundamental human rights to contested national identity and excludes those who do not so identify.</p>
<p>Canada and Spain have wasted decades trying to define the foundations of sovereignty and shared accounts of the future and the past. Eventually the Canadian political class just gave up. Attempts to define Spain as a nation have bedevilled efforts to include Catalans and Basques. The UK used to do these things better, with its acceptance of differentiated national identities and a reluctance to push definitions to the limit. </p>
<p>None of this means that the union is lost. There is <a href="http://www.ippr.org/files/images/media/files/publication/2011/10/devolution-in-practice_introduction_1775.pdf?noredirect=1">an argument</a> about whether devolution poses a threat to social welfare. Gordon Brown <a href="https://www.waterstones.com/book/my-scotland-our-britain/gordon-brown/9781471137488">argues</a> in favour of uniform levels for key services, for instance. But in practice, devolution has posed no threat to social solidarity or sharing. Such threats have come from <a href="http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/675b99c4-2f9b-11e5-91ac-a5e17d9b4cff.html">the centre</a>. </p>
<p>Social values across the UK <a href="http://www.nuffieldfoundation.org/sites/default/files/files/scotcen-ssa-report.pdf">have not</a> diverged. There is a consensus on liberal democracy and respect for minorities. There is even <a href="http://www.palgrave.com/page/detail/citizenship-after-the-nation-state-ailsa-henderson/?isb=9780230296572">broad support</a> for sharing resources according to need, which is more than the current <a href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/1580787/How-the-Barnett-formula-works.html">Barnett formula</a> does. </p>
<p>The union can even survive the circumstance that substantial proportions of people in Scotland and Northern Ireland want out. Unionists insisted that the Scottish referendum question be a simple Yes/No choice, but the evidence is that <a href="http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/scottish-independence-most-scots-back-devo-max-1-3310342">most people sought</a> a reshaped union and that is what both sides ended up offering. Alex Salmond famously <a href="http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/13113496.Alex_Salmond__we_must_leave_UK_but_maintain_our_other_unions/">declared that</a> the SNP wanted out of only one of six unions, while the No side <a href="http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/david-cameron-ed-miliband-nick-4265992">offered</a> more devolution. </p>
<h2>Friendly fire</h2>
<figure class="align-right zoomable">
<a href="https://images.theconversation.com/files/95079/original/image-20150916-6262-1t1ltju.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=1000&fit=clip"><img alt="" src="https://images.theconversation.com/files/95079/original/image-20150916-6262-1t1ltju.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=237&fit=clip" srcset="https://images.theconversation.com/files/95079/original/image-20150916-6262-1t1ltju.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=600&h=902&fit=crop&dpr=1 600w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/95079/original/image-20150916-6262-1t1ltju.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=30&auto=format&w=600&h=902&fit=crop&dpr=2 1200w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/95079/original/image-20150916-6262-1t1ltju.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=15&auto=format&w=600&h=902&fit=crop&dpr=3 1800w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/95079/original/image-20150916-6262-1t1ltju.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=754&h=1134&fit=crop&dpr=1 754w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/95079/original/image-20150916-6262-1t1ltju.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=30&auto=format&w=754&h=1134&fit=crop&dpr=2 1508w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/95079/original/image-20150916-6262-1t1ltju.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=15&auto=format&w=754&h=1134&fit=crop&dpr=3 2262w" sizes="(min-width: 1466px) 754px, (max-width: 599px) 100vw, (min-width: 600px) 600px, 237px"></a>
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<span class="caption">EVEL intent.</span>
<span class="attribution"><a class="source" href="http://www.shutterstock.com/cat.mhtml?lang=en&language=en&ref_site=photo&search_source=search_form&version=llv1&anyorall=all&safesearch=1&use_local_boost=1&autocomplete_id=&search_tracking_id=i2tXwPgl3HuYD3ARVaj0Ag&searchterm=david%20cameron&show_color_wheel=1&orient=&commercial_ok=&media_type=images&search_cat=&searchtermx=&photographer_name=&people_gender=&people_age=&people_ethnicity=&people_number=&color=&page=1&inline=183974723">Frederic Legrand</a></span>
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</figure>
<p>Following the referendum, the new unionists made two further anti-union gestures. <a href="http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/ed-miliband-rules-out-any-5589348">Labour declared</a> the SNP to be ineligible to participate in the government of the UK even through a parliamentary pact. The Conservatives stoked up English nationalism through a <a href="http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2015/02/english-votes-english-laws-what-are-tories-proposing">rush to</a> English votes for English laws and taxes. These do not just contradict unionism, they have helped to destroy the Britain-wide party system that served to integrate central and territorial politics. </p>
<p>The union is changing in profound ways. Scotland has become a distinct political community, Northern Ireland has a fragile peace settlement and Wales is thinking through its political status. The debate in England is only starting. There is a lot of work to be done on the mass of devolution legislation in the pipeline. </p>
<p>Progressives used rightly to lament that the UK still had a pre-modern state system with its monarchy, House of Lords and lack of popular sovereignty. Many of these features remain but the failure to define sovereignty or invest it in a single people might be seen as a positive. The United Kingdom has multiple peoples, and their character and relationships are still being worked out. There may eventually be time for a citizens’ convention and a grand debate on how it all adds up, but it is not now.</p><img src="https://counter.theconversation.com/content/47679/count.gif" alt="The Conversation" width="1" height="1" />
<p class="fine-print"><em><span>Michael Keating does not work for, consult, own shares in or receive funding from any company or organisation that would benefit from this article, and has disclosed no relevant affiliations beyond their academic appointment.</span></em></p>The union can survive its current period of volatility, but moves like English votes for English laws and ruling out a UK coalition with the SNP could yet bring it down.Michael Keating, Chair in Scottish Politics, University of AberdeenLicensed as Creative Commons – attribution, no derivatives.tag:theconversation.com,2011:article/447372015-07-15T14:34:41Z2015-07-15T14:34:41ZWhy the English fox may turn around to bite its Scottish saviours<p>The champagne corks are not exactly popping in <a href="http://www.scotsman.com/news/property-crisis-what-crisis-snp-plans-move-to-swish-new-hq-near-holyrood-1-1163025">Gordon Lamb House</a>, even if the SNP has reason to celebrate. The party has dealt another bloody nose to prime minister David Cameron – the fourth since the election – by forcing the government to <a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-33520547">postpone a planned vote</a> on repealing the ban on fox hunting.</p>
<p>Angered by the alleged second-class treatment Scottish MPs are getting from the Conservative government, the SNP warned that it would vote against the hunting bill. Fearful of losing, Cameron withdrew the vote from the parliamentary schedule. </p>
<p>But if the threat to vote against the fox-hunting bill showed the SNP as an effective opposition party capable of derailing the legislative agenda of the government, it also showed the dangers of such strategy. In order to fully grasp these dangers it is important to understand the source of the popularity and political credibility of the SNP.</p>
<p>The SNP did not become the only party that counts in Scotland by sheer luck. Both current leader Nicola Sturgeon and her predecessor Alex Salmond have spent the best part of the last decade transforming the SNP into a professional, well-oiled electoral machine and a responsible and competent party of government.</p>
<p>That strategy has delivered handsome returns. The SNP has led the Scottish government since 2007, <a href="http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/poll-snp-course-landslide-victory-6061943">polls</a> suggest it may win a landslide at next year’s Scottish parliamentary elections, and the party, with its 56 MPs in the House of Commons, is now a force to be reckoned with at Westminster.</p>
<p>The SNP’s popularity is also predicated on the claim that it is different. It presents itself as the antidote to the toxic Westminster culture of tricks and parlour games. That strategy is clearly visible in the behaviour of the SNP in the House of Commons. The party’s much larger contingent of MPs may be new to the green benches but they are not in awe of the place. They like to point to some of the old-fashioned and barmy Westminster <a href="http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/jul/12/snp-mps-at-westminster-scotland">rituals</a> and seem to wear with the pride the reprimands they get from the Speaker of the House every time they breach parliamentary etiquette.</p>
<p>But voting against a bill that does not remotely affect Scottish voters (or foxes) runs the risk of undermining the political credibility and popularity the SNP worked so hard to acquire. Instead of coming across as principled, the SNP now looks like a typical Westminster party that is ready to renege on its values in order to engage in a spot of legislative tit-for-tat just for the sake of it.</p>
<p>The party’s decision had nothing to do with a new-found concern for the well-being of English foxes (if anything, they enjoy <a href="http://www.thenational.scot/politics/scottish-government-to-consider-tightening-law-on-fox-hunting-after-noting-strength-of-feeling.5187">more protection</a> than Scottish foxes) and everything to do with revenge at the government’s proposals on English Votes for English Laws and further Scottish devolution.</p>
<p>That much was apparent when <a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-33520547">Sturgeon</a> that the SNP’s stance serve to remind the prime minister that he had “a slender and fragile” majority.</p>
<p>Until now, the SNP has refrained from voting on legislation that only affects England and developed a consistent position on EVEL. Considering the SNP’s raison d’être is to fight Westminster meddling into Scottish affairs, this position was consistent with its constitutional nationalism. </p>
<p>In threatening to vote on fox hunting, the party has thrown its own rulebook out the window. By breaching its own conventions regarding legislation that only affects England, it is not only indulging on the kind of politics it seeks to stand against, it is potentially weakening its hand on devolution matters. And here, Scotland has far more to loose than Westminster.</p>
<p>For now, supporters may celebrate the boldness of the SNP contingent in Westminster, but Sturgeon and her MPs should be aware that engaging in too many games may come back to haunt the party. That is particularly dangerous for a group that built its popularity on the back of the promise to deliver a different style of politics.</p><img src="https://counter.theconversation.com/content/44737/count.gif" alt="The Conversation" width="1" height="1" />
In threatening to derail a vote on fox hunting in England, the SNP has undermined its credibility as a voice for Scotland.Eunice Goes, Associate Professor of Politics, Richmond American International UniversityLicensed as Creative Commons – attribution, no derivatives.tag:theconversation.com,2011:article/442462015-07-03T12:04:49Z2015-07-03T12:04:49ZTory votes for Tory Laws? Cameron’s EVEL plan to cut out the opposition<p>We often think it’s rare for politicians to answer questions, but shortly after lunch on July 2, MPs were presented with a solution to a question that has plagued Westminster for more than 30 years.</p>
<p>The government presented its much anticipated plans to solve the West Lothian Question, or more simply, why Scottish MPs have long been able to vote on legislation only affecting England (or England and Wales) while English MPs are <a href="https://theconversation.com/english-votes-for-english-laws-is-much-less-sensible-than-it-first-appears-34552">unable to vote</a> on measures devolved to Scotland.</p>
<p>A new process of English Votes for English Laws (or EVEL as it is now more commonly known) seeks to resolve this problem.</p>
<p>Although bills affecting the whole of the UK will be debated and voted on in the usual way, when MPs come back to the House of Commons after the summer break, the way in which they do so for English-only or English-and-Welsh-only measures is likely to look somewhat different.</p>
<p>Essentially, MPs representing English constituencies (or Welsh constituencies, where relevant) will have a veto over measures that only affect England, or England and Wales.</p>
<p>England-only bills would be amended and voted on at their committee stage only by English MPs. Similarly, English-and-Welsh-only bills would be considered at committee stage only by MPs from England and Wales.</p>
<p>It sounds relatively simple, but is actually more difficult to manage in practice. Things become more complicated if only certain parts of a bill are considered to be English-only measures – and even more complicated if English MPs go on to veto these parts of an otherwise UK-wide bill. In fact, the <a href="https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/441224/English_votes_for_English_Laws-Guide-accessible.pdf">full details of the changes</a> being made take up 31 pages of a government document.</p>
<h2>Power play</h2>
<p>Conservative MPs are very supportive of the measures, while opposition MPs were much more critical. Labour’s Angela Eagle <a href="http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/tories-accused-trying-manufacture-majority-5989477">described the plan</a> as a cynical attempt by a government with an overall majority of just 12 to use procedural trickery to manufacture a very much larger one by knocking the SNP out of select votes. </p>
<p>The SNP’s Pete Wishart was not much kinder, describing it as “<a href="http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/jul/02/english-votes-english-laws-tories-bring-forward-plans">constitutional bilge and unworkable garbage</a>” while his colleague George Kerevan warned that it would “cause confusion, create political chaos and end the Union”.</p>
<p>Objections to the plan involve both the practical and of course, the political. On a practical level it is not clear how easy it will be to classify bills as being English-only, or how much of the government’s forthcoming legislation it will include.</p>
<p>There are also objections to the very manner in which EVEL is being introduced. There won’t be a bill, so to speak but a series of amendments to the <a href="http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm/cmstords.htm">Standing Orders</a> of the House of Commons.</p>
<p>Together the Standing Orders make up a rule book which governs the way the House of Commons is organised. EVEL requires changes to several of these rules, specifying when, how and by whom bills will be considered. Standing Orders can be changed very quickly, requiring only a simple majority vote by MPs.</p>
<p>The SNP would have preferred the government to introduce a bill – something that would drag the process out for much longer and put a larger number of obstacles in the way of change. For its part, Labour would have liked a <a href="http://press.labour.org.uk/post/123027179179/evel-the-leader-of-the-house-and-the-prime">constitutional convention</a>.</p>
<h2>Tipping the balance</h2>
<p>Politically, the move has been questioned by opposition MPs who see it as an attempt to shore up the government’s majority in the Commons and to cause havoc for any future Labour government.</p>
<p>The prime minister currently has only a slim 51% majority in the House of Commons as a whole, but the Conservatives make up <a href="http://www.economist.com/news/britain/21654845-why-conservatives-are-so-keen-english-only-votes-english-votes-english-tories">60% of all English MPs</a>.</p>
<p>No changes are being made in the House of Lords, so a Scottish peer will still be able to vote on an England-only bill while a Scottish MP will not. SNP Members are particularly unhappy about the plans, given that they have so far been unable to convince the government to make any changes at all to the Scotland bill, thanks to an army of English Conservative MPs voting against all of the party’s amendments. It’s no surprise then that MPs opposed to it are using the phrase “<a href="http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/politics/english-mps-set-to-get-english-votes-for-english-laws-veto-31346855.html">Tory Votes for Tory Laws</a>”.</p>
<p>MPs will vote on the measure on July 15. This will be done in the usual way, so SNP MPs will still get the chance to try to scupper the plans. With Labour, the DUP and the Lib Dems also <a href="http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/b34ea21a-20c1-11e5-ab0f-6bb9974f25d0.html#axzz3elwu5Nv1">due to vote against the plans</a>, it will be for this coalition of opposition parties to tempt a small number of more sceptical Conservatives into the no lobby with them.</p><img src="https://counter.theconversation.com/content/44246/count.gif" alt="The Conversation" width="1" height="1" />
<p class="fine-print"><em><span>Louise Thompson does not work for, consult, own shares in or receive funding from any company or organisation that would benefit from this article, and has disclosed no relevant affiliations beyond their academic appointment.</span></em></p>The government has published its plan on English Votes for English Laws – and is working out a bigger majority for itself in the process.Louise Thompson, Lecturer in British Politics, University of SurreyLicensed as Creative Commons – attribution, no derivatives.tag:theconversation.com,2011:article/405072015-04-20T17:10:05Z2015-04-20T17:10:05ZA political party is threatening the union – and it’s not the SNP<p>The future of the United Kingdom as a single nation state is firmly on the table this election. This is not merely a question of the Scottish National Party’s policy on independence for Scotland, however. A far more pernicious influence is coming from the centre-right.</p>
<p>Under pressure, the Conservative Party – and the <a href="http://www.theguardian.com/media/greenslade/2015/apr/20/snps-nicola-sturgeon-emerges-as-the-tory-press-election-demon">Conservative supporting press</a> – is making the influence of Scottish politicians at Westminster a central feature of its election campaign, testing relations between Scotland and England in so doing. </p>
<p>This has reached new heights now that Cameron has unveiled a remarkable proposal to produce an annual report detailing how decisions made by the Scottish government affect the rest of the UK. This so-called <a href="http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/wider-political-news/david-cameron-new-carlisle-principle-to-ensure-other-parts-of-the-uk-d.123620811">Carlisle principle</a> would then allow the other parts of the union to respond by taking compensatory action. </p>
<p>Treating the Scots as naughty children to be given report cards by their apparently wiser elders and punished if they do anything wrong is likely to further fray the ties that bind after May 7. But the danger goes further, and has been driven at least in part by the Conservative Party’s rhetoric regarding the SNP and Scottish MPs as a whole.</p>
<h2>Fighting dirty</h2>
<p>This Conservative narrative started in September. After voting to stay in the union, Scotland’s reward was to be told that its elected representatives could have even less power in the UK parliament. Under plans announced by David Cameron, MPs from Scotland would be prevented from voting on laws deemed to only affect England. This add-on had been missing from campaign literature calling for a No vote.</p>
<p>There are legitimate reasons for debating such a law – as well as obvious <a href="http://www.ucl.ac.uk/constitution-unit/constitution-unit-news/161214">dangers and problems</a> with it in practice – but the timing was a slap in the face to Scottish voters. The subsequent debate over English votes for English laws also tipped into English nationalist language from some <a href="http://www.psa.ac.uk/insight-plus/blog/english-votes-english-laws-why-politicians-should-not-%E2%80%9Cbring-it-on%E2%80%9D">Conservative MPs</a>.</p>
<p><a href="http://may2015.com/featured/election-2015-polls-suggest-ed-miliband-is-likely-to-become-prime-minister/">Current electoral predictions</a> suggest a centre-right coalition will be difficult, if not impossible to form. The Conservatives are therefore placing more and more emphasis on questioning the legitimacy of the most likely alternative – a Labour government working in co-operation with the SNP.</p>
<p>To do this, the Conservatives are first <a href="https://www.politicshome.com/party-politics/articles/story/michael-gove-lavishes-praise-impressive-nicola-sturgeon">playing up Nicola Sturgeons’ debating abilities</a> to undermine Labour’s vote in Scotland. While the party is willing SNP victories it is at the same time portraying Scottish Nationalist politicians as illegitimate.</p>
<p>Conservative propaganda shows Alex Salmond as a sinister figure travelling to Westminster to make Ed Miliband <a href="http://www.scotsman.com/what-s-on/tv-radio/david-cameron-met-sony-over-outlander-uk-release-1-3747339">dance to his tune</a>, while Nicola Sturgeon plays <a href="http://www.scotsman.com/what-s-on/tv-radio/david-cameron-met-sony-over-outlander-uk-release-1-3747339">puppeteer</a>. Ed Miliband is seen sitting in <a href="http://www.scotsman.com/what-s-on/tv-radio/david-cameron-met-sony-over-outlander-uk-release-1-3747339">SNP pockets</a>.</p>
<figure class="align-center ">
<img alt="" src="https://images.theconversation.com/files/78623/original/image-20150420-25692-1nmjt9t.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=754&fit=clip" srcset="https://images.theconversation.com/files/78623/original/image-20150420-25692-1nmjt9t.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=600&h=314&fit=crop&dpr=1 600w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/78623/original/image-20150420-25692-1nmjt9t.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=30&auto=format&w=600&h=314&fit=crop&dpr=2 1200w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/78623/original/image-20150420-25692-1nmjt9t.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=15&auto=format&w=600&h=314&fit=crop&dpr=3 1800w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/78623/original/image-20150420-25692-1nmjt9t.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=754&h=395&fit=crop&dpr=1 754w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/78623/original/image-20150420-25692-1nmjt9t.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=30&auto=format&w=754&h=395&fit=crop&dpr=2 1508w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/78623/original/image-20150420-25692-1nmjt9t.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=15&auto=format&w=754&h=395&fit=crop&dpr=3 2262w" sizes="(min-width: 1466px) 754px, (max-width: 599px) 100vw, (min-width: 600px) 600px, 237px">
<figcaption>
<span class="caption">The Tory view of a Labour/SNP deal.</span>
</figcaption>
</figure>
<p>It’s a grubby but effective technique. Almost inevitably, newspapers are suggesting that a minority Labour government that relies on the SNP votes would essentially be <a href="https://www.opendemocracy.net/ourkingdom/adam-ramsay/newspapers-are-preparing-for-coup-and-labour-is-doing-nothing-to-stop-them">squatting in Downing Street</a> – even if, constitutionally, that argument is highly questionable. </p>
<p>The Conservative message is plainly aimed at English voters and meant to undermine Labour south of the border. But it also sends a clear message to Scottish voters. Should they elect the SNP as their democratic representative, the message goes, they will be excluded from the British political system, having made an unacceptable choice.</p>
<p>Bashing the SNP as a political party with a secessionist ideology is one thing. The problem is that this Conservative rhetoric has in such ways grown to encompass the Scottish people – and their devolved government – as a whole.</p>
<p>Now, the Carlisle principle not only raises questions about the philosophical basis of devolution as a whole (that different nations carry out different policies in recognition of their differing electorate’s wishes) it also formally seeks to change the relationship between the nations into one based on competition.</p>
<p>While to claim “the end is nigh” would be overblown, this electoral campaign may prove dangerous for the union – for the Conservative Party is willing to gamble it for the chance of winning a few more English seats.</p><img src="https://counter.theconversation.com/content/40507/count.gif" alt="The Conversation" width="1" height="1" />
<p class="fine-print"><em><span>David Moon does not work for, consult, own shares in or receive funding from any company or organisation that would benefit from this article, and has disclosed no relevant affiliations beyond their academic appointment.</span></em></p>Nicola Sturgeon faces daily attacks for undermining England. But The Conservatives are hitting new lows with their latest proposal.David Moon, Lecturer in Politics, University of BathLicensed as Creative Commons – attribution, no derivatives.tag:theconversation.com,2011:article/395852015-04-09T12:55:09Z2015-04-09T12:55:09ZManifesto Check: Plaid Cymru’s political reforms see Wales withdrawing from Westminster<p>Plaid Cymru’s manifesto for political reform is pretty standard centre-left fare. It includes a rather vague commitment to strengthening the community level of democracy, as part of what it terms a “grassroots approach”. Plaid also supports the right to recall errant elected representatives, and remains part of the <a href="http://www.votesat16.org/about/who-are-we/">growing group of parties</a> who favour lowering the voting age to 16. </p>
<p>The party also pledges its continuing support for a wholly elected second chamber to replace the House of Lords. It wishes to see this chamber elected on territorial basis – presumably the kind of “<a href="http://press.labour.org.uk/post/101667859054/labour-announces-plans-to-give-regions-and-nations">nations and regions</a>” approach that is now being championed by sections of the Labour party. More distinctive is the reiteration of Plaid’s long-standing support for the use of <a href="http://www.electoral-reform.org.uk/single-transferable-vote">Single Transferable Vote</a> (STV), an electoral system that it wants to see used for electing the second chamber as well as (“when applicable”) in all other elections.</p>
<h2>More AMs, fewer MPs</h2>
<p>Unsurprisingly, the most distinctive elements of this section of the manifesto relate to the relationship between Wales and Westminster.</p>
<p>Plaid’s manifesto reiterates the party’s commitment to increasing the size of the Welsh Assembly. The <a href="http://www.electoral-reform.org.uk/sites/default/files/publication/file/file525e6bc308ebe.pdf">case for a larger assembly</a> is widely accepted in political circles in Wales, and focuses on the need to ensure effective scrutiny of Welsh legislation as well as the Welsh government. Plaid’s manifesto does not mention any specific number for an enlarged National Assembly. But it has long been understood that this would mean moving from the current 60 Assembly Members to a minimum of 80, though the intellectual case for 100 members is also compelling. </p>
<p>What is distinctive in Plaid’s position is its explicit linking of the case for larger assembly to the reduction in the number of Welsh MPs. While the size of the Scottish contingent in the House of Commons was reduced as a result of Scottish devolution, this has not (yet) occurred in the case of Wales, and it remains a contentious issue. Especially – though not exclusively – in the ranks of the Labour party, which has long dominated Welsh representation in the Commons.</p>
<h2>Support for EVEL</h2>
<p>A particularly striking feature of Plaid’s manifesto is the party’s explicit support for the principle of English Votes for English Laws (EVEL) at Westminster. But their caveat about Welsh MPs remaining free to vote on matters that do have implications for Wales touches on the difficult issue (which the manifesto does not talk about explicitly). </p>
<p>There are questions to be addressed around how EVEL might be made meaningful, given the workings of the Barnett Formula – which links funding allocations for the devolved territories to spending decisions for England – and the difficulties of identifying English-only laws, especially in the context of the single England and Wales legal jurisdiction. Nonetheless, this explicit support for EVEL may well become relevant in the context of a hung parliament.</p>
<p>Plaid also <a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-27325024">calls for official status</a> for the Welsh language in parliament, although in practice they only appear to envisage the language being used in specifically Welsh committees. This goal may win some sympathy from those aware of the current, preposterous situation where it is – at least officially – permissible to use <a href="http://www.parliament.uk/site-information/glossary/norman-french/">Norman French in parliament</a> but not to use the non-English native languages of Britain.</p>
<p>Plaid’s call for a Welsh Civil Service lacks detail. But the wording of the manifesto suggests an autonomous civil service on the <a href="http://www.nidirect.gov.uk/the-northern-ireland-civil-service">Northern Irish model</a>, rather than an autonomous “integrated public service” for Wales, as has occasionally <a href="http://www.english.plaidcymru.org/uploads/Silk_Plaid_Cymru_Evidence_Part_II_ENG.pdf">been suggested in the past</a>.</p>
<p><em>For more on Plaid Cymru’s devolution proposals, <a href="https://theconversation.com/manifesto-check-surprise-plaid-cyrmu-calls-for-radical-devolution-of-powers-39887">click here</a>.</em></p><img src="https://counter.theconversation.com/content/39585/count.gif" alt="The Conversation" width="1" height="1" />
<p class="fine-print"><em><span>Richard Wyn Jones is affiliated with 'Dyfodol', a civil society organisation campaigning for equal status for the Welsh language.</span></em></p><p class="fine-print"><em><span>Roger Awan-Scully does not work for, consult, own shares in or receive funding from any company or organisation that would benefit from this article, and has disclosed no relevant affiliations beyond their academic appointment.</span></em></p>Plaid Cymru calls for fewer Welsh MPs and English Votes for English Laws.Richard Wyn Jones, Professor of Politics, Cardiff UniversityRoger Awan-Scully, Professor of Political Science, Cardiff UniversityLicensed as Creative Commons – attribution, no derivatives.tag:theconversation.com,2011:article/366262015-01-22T16:30:51Z2015-01-22T16:30:51ZA bill for more Scottish powers is one thing, making it law is quite another<p>And so it has arrived: <a href="https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/scotland-in-the-united-kingdom-an-enduring-settlement">draft legislation</a> on further powers for the Scottish parliament, published before <a href="http://www.robertburns.org/suppers/">Burns Night</a> (January 25), in accordance with the timetable set out in the wake of <a href="http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/david-cameron-ed-miliband-nick-4265992">“The Vow”</a>. </p>
<p>As David Cameron, the prime minister, <a href="http://www.itv.com/news/wales/update/2015-01-22/the-vow-to-scotlands-been-kept-claims-cameron/">said</a> in Edinburgh at the announcement:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>We said we’d get cross-party agreement by St Andrew’s Day – and we did. We said draft legislation would be published by Burns Night – and here we are, three days before the celebrations start, with those clauses before us.</p>
</blockquote>
<h2>The welfare row</h2>
<p>There appear to be two clear fault lines emerging since the announcement. The first, which has the most resonance in Scotland, is over the issue of whether powers devolved over welfare are to be fully within the remit of the Scottish government or whether the UK government will retain some influence in this sphere.</p>
<p>First Minister Nicola Sturgeon <a href="http://news.scotland.gov.uk/News/Smith-clauses-give-Westminster-veto-in-key-areas-14d4.aspx">has been</a> arguing that the draft clauses do not provide “a general power to create new benefits in devolved areas as was promised by the <a href="https://www.smith-commission.scot">Smith Commission</a> and gives the UK government effective veto over changes to universal credit, including bedroom tax.” The Scottish National Party (SNP) appear to be making this the theme of their response, with Pete Wishart MP <a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-30924865">calling the</a> legislation a “veto-ridden document”.</p>
<figure class="align-center zoomable">
<a href="https://images.theconversation.com/files/69779/original/image-20150122-12091-16uf1pc.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=1000&fit=clip"><img alt="" src="https://images.theconversation.com/files/69779/original/image-20150122-12091-16uf1pc.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=754&fit=clip" srcset="https://images.theconversation.com/files/69779/original/image-20150122-12091-16uf1pc.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=600&h=388&fit=crop&dpr=1 600w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/69779/original/image-20150122-12091-16uf1pc.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=30&auto=format&w=600&h=388&fit=crop&dpr=2 1200w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/69779/original/image-20150122-12091-16uf1pc.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=15&auto=format&w=600&h=388&fit=crop&dpr=3 1800w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/69779/original/image-20150122-12091-16uf1pc.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=754&h=488&fit=crop&dpr=1 754w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/69779/original/image-20150122-12091-16uf1pc.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=30&auto=format&w=754&h=488&fit=crop&dpr=2 1508w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/69779/original/image-20150122-12091-16uf1pc.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=15&auto=format&w=754&h=488&fit=crop&dpr=3 2262w" sizes="(min-width: 1466px) 754px, (max-width: 599px) 100vw, (min-width: 600px) 600px, 237px"></a>
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<span class="caption">Nicola on the warpath.</span>
<span class="attribution"><a class="source" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/scottishgovernment/15964606986/in/photolist-pQm789-qjJMsA-q5GBYB-pqobgH-qkiwwh-q6aFkF-qnzzdV-q5Atty-pqofPa-q5J6WM-q5t4VW-q5surj-q14yK8-qn8fkg-qn9sjp-qjSQrA-q5GXfT-pqovDk-6N7USn-pQeJ1L-qn8DA4-pqnR8c-q5HngM-qjSuub-q5HdSK-qn64os-q5HECa-pqo4er-q5FXPF-q5Gsat-q5Hnae-pqo1qk-q5A2sd-pZUVDb-pqoEC2-q5AEFo-pqoGtX-qn5YSd-pZUV1h-pQKmJp-q7WER2-q7XUmM-q8guu3-9M6174-9M5QKp-gUgWfX-q6Zvk2-aBrT7M-9w6TrK-9w6ToT">Scottish Government</a>, <a class="license" href="http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/">CC BY-SA</a></span>
</figcaption>
</figure>
<p>Secretary of State for Scotland Alastair Carmichael, in response to this question from journalists, <a href="http://www.thecourier.co.uk/news/politics/row-as-nicola-sturgeon-claims-uk-government-has-bedroom-tax-veto-1.800279">simply said</a> that the first minister was “wrong”, and that there was nothing in the draft legislation which would prevent the Scottish government from pursuing its own priorities with regards to welfare benefits.</p>
<p>The relevant section of the draft legislation is this:</p>
<figure class="align-center zoomable">
<a href="https://images.theconversation.com/files/69769/original/image-20150122-12085-2ge4et.png?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=1000&fit=clip"><img alt="" src="https://images.theconversation.com/files/69769/original/image-20150122-12085-2ge4et.png?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=754&fit=clip" srcset="https://images.theconversation.com/files/69769/original/image-20150122-12085-2ge4et.png?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=600&h=232&fit=crop&dpr=1 600w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/69769/original/image-20150122-12085-2ge4et.png?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=30&auto=format&w=600&h=232&fit=crop&dpr=2 1200w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/69769/original/image-20150122-12085-2ge4et.png?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=15&auto=format&w=600&h=232&fit=crop&dpr=3 1800w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/69769/original/image-20150122-12085-2ge4et.png?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=754&h=291&fit=crop&dpr=1 754w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/69769/original/image-20150122-12085-2ge4et.png?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=30&auto=format&w=754&h=291&fit=crop&dpr=2 1508w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/69769/original/image-20150122-12085-2ge4et.png?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=15&auto=format&w=754&h=291&fit=crop&dpr=3 2262w" sizes="(min-width: 1466px) 754px, (max-width: 599px) 100vw, (min-width: 600px) 600px, 237px"></a>
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<p>This says the secretary of state must be consulted about Scottish government intentions with regard to changes to welfare benefits, and that they must subsequently provide their “agreement” that the Scottish government can proceed to make such changes. David Mundell, under-secretary of state for Scotland, <a href="http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/scottish-politics/mundell-scotland-will-have-one-of-the-most-powerful-devolved-parliaments-.1421929787">argued it meant that</a> the UK government “will need to understand what the Scottish government intends to do with the new powers.”</p>
<h2>What Wales tell us</h2>
<p>In several respects, this clause is reminiscent of the <a href="http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/32/contents">Government of Wales Act 2006</a> and the process through which further powers could be delivered to the national assembly for Wales through a complex system of <a href="http://www.assembly.wales/en/bus-home/bus-third-assembly/bus-legislation-third-assembly/bus-legislation-guidance-third-assembly/Pages/bus-legislation-guidance-lco.aspx#lcodiagram">legislative competence orders (LCOs)</a>. In this system, an LCO committee was formed with members of the House of Commons and House of Lords to consider whether the power should be devolved, before being presented to the secretary of state for Wales for agreement or veto (and subsequently voted upon, both in the Commons and the Lords). </p>
<p><a href="https://devolutionmatters.wordpress.com/2010/02/28/wales-the-housing-lco-and-the-tories/">Amid delays</a> that were based, in part, on political point-scoring, the system lasted only five years before the Welsh Assembly Government moved forward with a referendum to get rid of the LCO system and devolve further powers in one go – evidence, perhaps, that a system which requires the agreement of both devolved and central governments on policy changes might prove detrimental to effective governance.</p>
<h2>The EVEL that men want</h2>
<p>The second fault line is, rather predictably, the wider constitutional ramifications of further devolution to Scotland. <a href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/11361201/Scotland-Bill-published-live.html">During</a> David Mundell’s statement in the House of Commons, Conservative MPs lined up to point out that now Scotland had been dealt with, England should be next. </p>
<p>The matter of English votes for English laws was raised by several speakers keen to make sure the issue of how England is governed remains on the UK political agenda – <a href="http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/jan/20/scottish-votes-income-tax-george-osborne-devolution">further to</a> Chancellor George Osborne’s comments earlier in the week that Scottish MPs shouldn’t be allowed to vote on aspects of income tax that don’t pertain to Scotland. No doubt they were given added impetus by Nicola Sturgeon’s <a href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/11360260/Nicola-Sturgeon-SNP-MPs-will-vote-on-English-only-matters.html">announcement</a> of a change in SNP policy, which would see their MPs vote on English health matters that affected the NHS in Scotland. </p>
<p>Bear in mind too, that at this stage, this is just draft legislation. While each of the three “large” UK parties (quite how large they will be after May’s election remains to be seen) have committed to delivering upon the legislation within a reasonable timeframe, the final details of legislation will <a href="https://theconversation.com/can-new-powers-for-scotland-really-be-delivered-within-promised-timescale-33960">still require substantial consideration</a>. And with the <a href="https://theconversation.com/labour-really-does-face-a-tough-battle-in-scotland-35929">likelihood of</a> substantially greater numbers of SNP MPs taking seats in the House of Commons after May, this is unlikely to be the end of the story.</p><img src="https://counter.theconversation.com/content/36626/count.gif" alt="The Conversation" width="1" height="1" />
<p class="fine-print"><em><span>Malcolm receives funding from the Economic and Social Research Council for his position as a researcher for the Centre on Constitutional Change.</span></em></p>And so it has arrived: draft legislation on further powers for the Scottish parliament, published before Burns Night (January 25), in accordance with the timetable set out in the wake of “The Vow”. As…Malcolm Harvey, Research Fellow of the Centre on Constitutional Change, University of AberdeenLicensed as Creative Commons – attribution, no derivatives.tag:theconversation.com,2011:article/358772015-01-09T06:13:27Z2015-01-09T06:13:27ZCampaigners for more English powers are missing a trick<figure><img src="https://images.theconversation.com/files/68234/original/image-20150105-13823-1sijjmz.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=496&fit=clip" /><figcaption><span class="caption">The problem with those seeking more English powers is that they're not working together</span> <span class="attribution"><a class="source" href="http://www.shutterstock.com/s/english+powers/search.html?page=3&thumb_size=mosaic&inline=167472527">Samuel Borges Photography</a></span></figcaption></figure><p>The repercussions of the Scottish independence referendum were always likely to be profound, whoever won. As Scotland waits to see if Westminster can meet its <a href="http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Topics/constitution/smith-commission">deadline</a> for producing draft legislation for extending more powers north of the border by January 25, English political leaders have become more aware than ever of the growing gap in devolved powers between England and the other home nations. George Osborne’s <a href="http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/5426fc12-6346-11e4-8a63-00144feabdc0.html">return to</a> stressing the need for further austerity after the May general election has provided further impetus for English devolution: <a href="http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/the-northerner/2014/jul/15/northern-poor-areas-hit-hardest-by-council-cuts">to some</a>, it is a way to counter fresh cuts.</p>
<h2>What’s on the table</h2>
<p>Four kinds of English devolution are being discussed. The first is what has become known “English Votes for English Laws,” to which end the leader of the House of Commons, William Hague, <a href="http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2014/12/what-are-options-english-votes-english-laws-plans">put forward</a> four options on December 16. These included barring Scottish MPs from any role in English and Welsh legislation along with several more cautious proposals. A few days later Tory grandee Lord Salisbury went further, <a href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/11322309/The-battle-to-keep-our-Union-together-has-only-just-begun.html">proposing that</a> the Commons become an English parliament and the Lords become the UK house for a remnant of reserved subjects like defence and foreign affairs. </p>
<p>The next set of issues relate to providing further regional investment, particularly in the north to allow it to compete with the south and Scotland. In recent months, Chancellor George Osborne <a href="https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/chancellor-we-need-a-northern-powerhouse">has been</a> talking up his desire to pool the north English cities of Manchester, Liverpool, Leeds and Sheffield into one large “northern powerhouse”. In the Autumn Statement, <a href="http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/ccc65d4a-797e-11e4-9e81-00144feabdc0.html">he announced</a> investments into science facilities in Newcastle, Manchester and other cities, along with a range of cultural, road and rail improvements. </p>
<p>The third issue concerns devolving powers to some regional bodies. Like its Labour predecessor, the coalition has become enamoured with directly elected mayors. This has been most recently evident in the <a href="https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/devolution-to-the-greater-manchester-combined-authority-and-transition-to-a-directly-elected-mayor">decision to</a> award a directly elected mayor to a combination of the ten local authorities in Greater Manchester, with powers over transport, housing and planning. </p>
<figure class="align-center zoomable">
<a href="https://images.theconversation.com/files/68235/original/image-20150105-13820-1qet811.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=1000&fit=clip"><img alt="" src="https://images.theconversation.com/files/68235/original/image-20150105-13820-1qet811.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=754&fit=clip" srcset="https://images.theconversation.com/files/68235/original/image-20150105-13820-1qet811.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=600&h=418&fit=crop&dpr=1 600w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/68235/original/image-20150105-13820-1qet811.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=30&auto=format&w=600&h=418&fit=crop&dpr=2 1200w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/68235/original/image-20150105-13820-1qet811.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=15&auto=format&w=600&h=418&fit=crop&dpr=3 1800w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/68235/original/image-20150105-13820-1qet811.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=754&h=525&fit=crop&dpr=1 754w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/68235/original/image-20150105-13820-1qet811.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=30&auto=format&w=754&h=525&fit=crop&dpr=2 1508w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/68235/original/image-20150105-13820-1qet811.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=15&auto=format&w=754&h=525&fit=crop&dpr=3 2262w" sizes="(min-width: 1466px) 754px, (max-width: 599px) 100vw, (min-width: 600px) 600px, 237px"></a>
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<span class="caption">Greater Manchester: new powers.</span>
<span class="attribution"><a class="source" href="http://www.shutterstock.com/s/english+powers/search.html?page=3&thumb_size=mosaic&inline=167472527">The Laird of Oldham</a>, <a class="license" href="http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/">CC BY-SA</a></span>
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<p>The Greater Manchester Combined Authority is also to be awarded new powers relating to business growth, local skills and health and social care. This comes on the back of <a href="http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/city-leaders-demand-meeting-david-7835057">not-always-successful attempts</a> from the coalition to award powers, particularly over local economic development, to the eight “core cities” outside London.</p>
<p>Finally, in early December, local councils made a high-profile bid for more powers when 119 English council leaders combined <a href="http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/nov/29/regions-letter-end-austerity-more-powers-devolution">to write a</a> strongly worded letter to The Observer newspaper. They pointed to devolution to Scotland and argued for greater powers over local budgets and powers to be granted to them, indicating that their voters expected no less. </p>
<h2>The bigger picture</h2>
<p>We’ve heard parts of these debates before, of course. The coalition set up the <a href="https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/mckay-commission">McKay Commission</a> shortly after coming to office to look into the issue of English Votes for English Laws. Its <a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-21921977">recommendations included</a> that a majority of English MPs should “normally” have to approve laws that distinctly affect England, but they were not implemented. </p>
<p>Meanwhile Manchester, along with eight other cities, <a href="http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2012/may/04/cameron-elected-mayors-plan-rejected">actually declined</a> the opportunity to have a directly elected mayor in a low-turnout referendum in May 2012. Since 2010 mainly northern Labour-led councils <a href="http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/the-northerner/2014/jul/15/northern-poor-areas-hit-hardest-by-council-cuts">have complained bitterly</a> that they have been unfairly squeezed by austerity while southern Conservative-led councils have had nowhere near the same level of cuts imposed on them. </p>
<figure class="align-center zoomable">
<a href="https://images.theconversation.com/files/68238/original/image-20150105-13830-1aok7ce.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=1000&fit=clip"><img alt="" src="https://images.theconversation.com/files/68238/original/image-20150105-13830-1aok7ce.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=754&fit=clip" srcset="https://images.theconversation.com/files/68238/original/image-20150105-13830-1aok7ce.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=600&h=373&fit=crop&dpr=1 600w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/68238/original/image-20150105-13830-1aok7ce.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=30&auto=format&w=600&h=373&fit=crop&dpr=2 1200w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/68238/original/image-20150105-13830-1aok7ce.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=15&auto=format&w=600&h=373&fit=crop&dpr=3 1800w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/68238/original/image-20150105-13830-1aok7ce.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=754&h=469&fit=crop&dpr=1 754w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/68238/original/image-20150105-13830-1aok7ce.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=30&auto=format&w=754&h=469&fit=crop&dpr=2 1508w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/68238/original/image-20150105-13830-1aok7ce.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=15&auto=format&w=754&h=469&fit=crop&dpr=3 2262w" sizes="(min-width: 1466px) 754px, (max-width: 599px) 100vw, (min-width: 600px) 600px, 237px"></a>
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<span class="caption">Liverpool council is among those complaining that the north is getting the worst of the austerity.</span>
<span class="attribution"><a class="source" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/bevgoodwin/8787523863/in/photolist-6fNEPP-9tsr4S-4nWVR9-4nWVK5-pthZQ9-pKJTQH-oNX65F-efDJis-pfaH1Y-eowmG8-74iMKJ-brN9z-65jB5E-65jB8q-5ZVixz-bMheGK-brN8x-9abyGN-714kB7-7tqr23-6KMLyi-4nSS6k-8mCtbb-oLx4ML-8WkQk-onbd9c-4nWVWY-khJFs8-4WppCD-vjyhC-6XuroE-44stY-f9Yn92-jzPKgu-cKPfjh-d9jmu3-7ZHHhP-cvikd-bXcebu-njxoJD-nAKcHT-9mzDpP-brNaA-diFKcf-97KDDg-oKh8XH-9rxWcT-bRwSpc-pHDVYJ-oNU3Sw">Beverley Goodwin</a>, <a class="license" href="http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/">CC BY-SA</a></span>
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</figure>
<p>This is a long(ish) game, it must be said. While the Manchester devolution agreement has been signed, most of these issues will now be kicked into the long grass until after the general election – and no parliament can bind its successor. Investment in north England will require sustained attention over a long period of time, not just one short announcement. Neither does it appear to necessarily come with the political powers to decide priorities. </p>
<p>What is different this time in England is that there does appear to be some clear momentum behind these arguments, unlike in the <a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3984387.stm">failed north-east referendum</a> in 2004, for example. The 119 council leaders’ Observer letter was a fully bipartisan effort. Political elites from various parties recognise that some form of English balancing of the asymmetric devolution settlement is necessary.</p>
<h2>The small print</h2>
<p>I would add three major disclaimers. Most of these potential reforms are piecemeal and depend almost entirely on the whim of the government of the day. Westminster retains power and is notoriously reluctant to give it up. If English political leaders wish more powers and investment, not only are they going to have to co-operate, they are also going to have to bring the public onboard to show these powers have support. The difficulties in this should not be underestimated. </p>
<p>Second, I often hear the refrain asserted that England is different and couldn’t have some form of parliament or devolved institution. But if Germany and the US have federal systems and operate successfully, there is no obvious reason why some form of institutional balancing could not work here. </p>
<p>The argument to the contrary either needs to be convincingly set out, or this option needs to start to be considered. Granted, public support is small. But if not considered seriously, any reforms will remain piecemeal, liable to further change and subject to the whims of whichever party is in government.</p>
<p>Finally, the debate in England partly misunderstands what has been offered to Scots by the <a href="https://www.smith-commission.scot">Smith Commission</a>. The headline reforms are certainly all about partial control of income taxes and finance. However, in a little-commented-upon part of the report, it also proposes that the Scottish parliament give up some powers to local government through a process of “double devolution”. </p>
<p>What this shows to those engaged in the English debate is that devolution is not an either/or process where the various options are mutually exclusive. Instead, a form of English votes for English laws (EVEL) or English institution could co-exist with either regional or local devolution of powers in a comprehensive constitutional settlement. </p>
<p>Until this is well recognised, the debate is likely to remain a piecemeal and zero-sum game where the actors seek advantage but no real meaningful power is given up by the centre. What is sure is that the debate will continue in 2015. From being a minority sport, territorial reforms are likely to become an important, and highly political, issue in the general election and beyond.</p><img src="https://counter.theconversation.com/content/35877/count.gif" alt="The Conversation" width="1" height="1" />
<p class="fine-print"><em><span>Alistair is a Trustee and Executive Member of the Political Studies Association of the UK. He gave evidence to the Scottish parliament review into the 2012 local government elections and submitted a response to the "Scotland's Electoral Future" consultation.</span></em></p>The repercussions of the Scottish independence referendum were always likely to be profound, whoever won. As Scotland waits to see if Westminster can meet its deadline for producing draft legislation for…Alistair Clark, Senior Lecturer in Politics, Newcastle UniversityLicensed as Creative Commons – attribution, no derivatives.tag:theconversation.com,2011:article/345522014-11-21T15:20:26Z2014-11-21T15:20:26ZEnglish votes for English laws is much less sensible than it first appears<p>Ever since David Cameron <a href="http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/19/david-cameron-devolution-revolution-uk-scotland-vote">wrong-footed his opponents</a> on the morning after the independence referendum by meshing it to the question of extending more powers to Scotland, the question of English votes for English laws has never been far away. </p>
<p>William Hague is leading a cabinet committee that is due to produce proposals about how to proceed with the so-called West Lothian question (it is being boycotted by Labour, who see the issue as a trap designed to make it harder for them to govern). David Cameron has now <a href="http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/nov/20/english-mps-veto-english-laws-david-cameron">given us</a> a sense of where these deliberations are heading, saying that re-electing a Conservative government would ensure that English MPs were given a veto over legislative matters affected only them. </p>
<p>“There is a way of comprehensively answering this question in a way that maintains the integrity of our parliament and of our system,” he insisted during committee questions in the Commons. </p>
<p>But this is not a question for which we need to seek an answer. It makes more sense to think of it as a paradox of the sort that is quite common in political systems. There is no need to try to eradicate them. They are not a cause for alarm or concern. </p>
<h2>More paradoxes than grains of sand</h2>
<p>A paradox is a surprising combination of ideas such as a clash, or apparent clash, of principles. For instance it is paradoxical that nurses wake up their patients to give them sleeping pills. It is paradoxical to say, <a href="http://www.enotes.com/shakespeare-quotes/good-night-good-night-parting-such-sweet-sorrow">as Shakespeare did</a>, that parting can be such sweet sorrow. It is paradoxical to note, as <a href="http://people.umass.edu/klement/imp/imp.html">Bertrand Russell suggested</a>, that the set of all numbers is no larger than the set of all odd numbers or the set of all even numbers since all three are infinite. </p>
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<a href="https://images.theconversation.com/files/65200/original/image-20141121-1040-fh5628.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=1000&fit=clip"><img alt="" src="https://images.theconversation.com/files/65200/original/image-20141121-1040-fh5628.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=754&fit=clip" srcset="https://images.theconversation.com/files/65200/original/image-20141121-1040-fh5628.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=600&h=374&fit=crop&dpr=1 600w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/65200/original/image-20141121-1040-fh5628.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=30&auto=format&w=600&h=374&fit=crop&dpr=2 1200w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/65200/original/image-20141121-1040-fh5628.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=15&auto=format&w=600&h=374&fit=crop&dpr=3 1800w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/65200/original/image-20141121-1040-fh5628.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=754&h=469&fit=crop&dpr=1 754w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/65200/original/image-20141121-1040-fh5628.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=30&auto=format&w=754&h=469&fit=crop&dpr=2 1508w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/65200/original/image-20141121-1040-fh5628.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=15&auto=format&w=754&h=469&fit=crop&dpr=3 2262w" sizes="(min-width: 1466px) 754px, (max-width: 599px) 100vw, (min-width: 600px) 600px, 237px"></a>
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<span class="caption">Paradoxes as far as the eye can see.</span>
<span class="attribution"><a class="source" href="http://www.shutterstock.com/pic-117037576/stock-photo-rippled-sand.html?src=OECJhnnsskFpXsOQjTJDpw-1-22">Natalie Davidovich</a></span>
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<p>The steps required to eradicate paradoxes in our political system are often impractical or would cause more problems than they solve – even sometimes creating new paradoxes. </p>
<p>We do not allow everyone to vote. In order to vote, you must be an adult citizen. The presumption would seem to be that younger people lack intelligence, knowledge, experience or some such feature that is relevant to voting wisely and responsibly. Yet paradoxically, the votes of all adults count equally. Through ageing and injury, people can come to lose the faculties of memory, reasoning and so forth. </p>
<p>Nonetheless, they do not automatically lose their right to vote when they have lost the capacity to exercise that right meaningfully. On this logic, you could equally argue that some people should have more votes than others. The philosopher John Stuart Mill <a href="http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=3e5L58BRAp8C&pg=PT193&lpg=PT193&dq=mill+some+people+should+get+more+votes&source=bl&ots=hiYnMM-Rmb&sig=P01d5vYq1ju0VYjW7k4OhUFIjdk&hl=en&sa=X&ei=0idvVIuXDI7taMOegFA&ved=0CDIQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q&f=false">thought so</a>.</p>
<p>There is another strand here. <a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-23074572">On the grounds that</a> young people have the prospect of a long-term stake and interest in the country, the voting age was reduced to 16 years for the referendum. Yet we did not choose to remove the right to vote from those who did not have a long-term future in Scotland, such as the terminally ill, the very old or those who were about to emigrate. As with many paradoxes of course, these are ones that we are wise to ignore. </p>
<h2>Endless grounds for disqualification</h2>
<p>MPs who have urban constituencies that do not hold fox hunts voted on the bills which <a href="https://uk.news.yahoo.com/on-this-day--fox-hunting-banned-in-england-and-wales-182326439.html#CfQwG6S">made fox-hunting illegal</a>. MPs who do not have wind turbines, oil fields, nuclear power stations or coal mines in their constituencies vote on all matters pertaining to fuel policy. MPs who are deaf vote can vote on matters relating to noise abatement. MPs who are confirmed bachelors and childless vote on such matters as divorce legislation and childcare payments. </p>
<p>Creating a devolved legislative body at Holyrood in the absence of an equivalent body for England increased and compounded the paradoxes around Scottish special treatment in our political system. It certainly wasn’t the beginning of them, however. Ever since the inception of the union in 1707, the separate nature of Scots law, Scottish education and the role of the Church of Scotland created paradoxes. </p>
<h2>Murderers more welcome over the border</h2>
<p>Suppose a man is tried for murder in Carlisle in the north of England. If eight out of the 12 members of the jury are convinced he is guilty while four decide he was innocent, he cannot be found guilty of the crime. At least ten out of the jury of 12 members must agree for a guilty verdict to hold.</p>
<p>Now suppose the very same crime with the same people, evidence and so forth were committed just over the Scottish border. This might mean it were tried 85 miles away at the nearest high court in Glasgow, where there are 15 members on a jury and, even in a murder trial, a straight majority verdict can secure a verdict of guilty. This means that if there are again eight jurors that are convinced of the man’s guilt, he will be convicted. </p>
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<a href="https://images.theconversation.com/files/65201/original/image-20141121-1052-149s12k.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=1000&fit=clip"><img alt="" src="https://images.theconversation.com/files/65201/original/image-20141121-1052-149s12k.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=754&fit=clip" srcset="https://images.theconversation.com/files/65201/original/image-20141121-1052-149s12k.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=600&h=450&fit=crop&dpr=1 600w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/65201/original/image-20141121-1052-149s12k.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=30&auto=format&w=600&h=450&fit=crop&dpr=2 1200w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/65201/original/image-20141121-1052-149s12k.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=15&auto=format&w=600&h=450&fit=crop&dpr=3 1800w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/65201/original/image-20141121-1052-149s12k.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=754&h=566&fit=crop&dpr=1 754w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/65201/original/image-20141121-1052-149s12k.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=30&auto=format&w=754&h=566&fit=crop&dpr=2 1508w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/65201/original/image-20141121-1052-149s12k.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=15&auto=format&w=754&h=566&fit=crop&dpr=3 2262w" sizes="(min-width: 1466px) 754px, (max-width: 599px) 100vw, (min-width: 600px) 600px, 237px"></a>
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<span class="caption">Don’t let a Scottish jury get hold of you.</span>
<span class="attribution"><a class="source" href="http://www.shutterstock.com/pic-175655786/stock-photo-wooden-mallet-and-scottish-flag-clipping-path-included.html?src=x-JvFdJ9QZPuoqqhVMuWrw-1-0">corund</a></span>
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<p>We have chosen to live with paradoxes of this sort. Most people are not at all discomforted by them, and rightly so. Yet this is arguably a much more alarming paradox than the fact that Scottish MPs get to vote on matters that only apply to English constituencies. </p>
<p>The reality is this: parliament has an interest in what happens throughout the UK and MPs can comment and vote on it in their capacity as MPs. All MPs are equal as MPs. Like equal votes for all citizens is a principle of our particular political system, whether or not it is unfair or rationally defensible as an abstract principle. </p>
<p>We should be wary of calls to eradicate the West Lothian paradox unless we are ready to accept that we might thereby create other paradoxes and alter our particular democracy in unintended, unwanted ways. Scottish MPs voting on English matters is just one of a great many constitutional matters that look hard to defend on strict rational principles, but the key is always to look at the broader principle that lies behind them. It is time for David Cameron to stop seeking political advantage and embrace the paradoxical system over which he presides.</p><img src="https://counter.theconversation.com/content/34552/count.gif" alt="The Conversation" width="1" height="1" />
<p class="fine-print"><em><span>Hugh McLachlan does not work for, consult, own shares in or receive funding from any company or organisation that would benefit from this article, and has disclosed no relevant affiliations beyond their academic appointment.</span></em></p>Ever since David Cameron wrong-footed his opponents on the morning after the independence referendum by meshing it to the question of extending more powers to Scotland, the question of English votes for…Hugh McLachlan, Professor of Applied Philosophy, Glasgow Caledonian UniversityLicensed as Creative Commons – attribution, no derivatives.