It has has been suggested a hoax by anti-coal activist Jonathan Moylan wiping million of dollars from Whitehaven Coal’s share price was an act of “civil disobedience”, akin to chaining a person to a tree, a public protest or even a prank call on the radio.
Activists across all campaigns have traditionally used a variety of techniques to gain the maximum amount of publicity.
From public statements made by Mr Moylan, it is clear he carefully considered what he was doing prior to impersonating the bank’s head of corporate sustainability and forging the ANZ logo to create the fake media release.
The release, which incorrectly claimed the bank had withdrawn a $1.2 billion loan due to environmental concerns over Whitehaven’s Maules Creek development, caused the shareprice to dive sharply, before recovering following statements from both Whitehaven and ANZ.
Unfortunately for Mr Moylan, the legislation that deals with corporate fraud is drafted in a way that imposes a high penalty on false or misleading statements made in respect of traded securities on the Australian Securities Exchange.
Section 1041E of the Corporations Act 2001 (Cth) specifically deals with this type of situation and has a maximum criminal penalty of 10 years imprisonment and up to $495,000.
The difference between a public nuisance and civil disobedience is the impact on the general community. A protest normally provides publicity for a cause and brings the matter to the general public’s attention, but causes little harm to the community.
A fraud – and in particular one that impacts on the share market – has huge consequences. Financial services in Australia is the single biggest industry in the economy (over 10% of GDP) and the confidence in the ASX and other securities markets is critical. Frauds and false information impact on the whole markets creditability and investors are less likely to invest, particularly international investors.
Markets operate on a concept of efficient market hypotheses; that is, all available public information is calculated into the current share price. When insider trading occurs, it is a distortion of timing of good or bad news that would materially impact the share price. Market manipulation is when false information distorts the share price and this undermines the whole market.
Misleading media releases have been subject to the High Court of Australia’s review in 2012 with the James Hardie litigation (where the directors were held to be in breach of the law) and Fortescue Metals Group (where there was no breach as the CEO honestly and reasonably believed the information was true). These were civil penalty actions as there was no suggestion of fraud or dishonesty by the companies in question.
Normally false information (fraudulent or falsely misleading under s 1014E) as allegedly occurred in the Adult.com case heard by the High Court in November 2012, indicated an intention for parties to profit from the false information.
There is no suggestion Mr Moylan intended to profit from the false statement, but when the shares dropped by 8.8% to $3.21, $314 million was wiped from shareholder funds. Individual small shareholders would have unfairly lost money by the fraud.
The corporate regulator, Australian Securities and Investment Commission, is investigating and if there is sufficient evidence, it should bring a criminal prosecution.
The fact that this is the third such fraud in the last six months, the others being a false takeovers of David Jones and MacMahon Holdings, could really begin to undermine the confidence in the ASX.
One final consideration to redress the small shareholders that suffered a loss is for the ASX to use its powers to cancel the transactions. These provisions are intended for when a mistake occurs, but have been used in fraudulent circumstances before, such as with Magnet Group in 1984 on the old Perth Stock Exchange, when a forged letter delivered to the Exchange suggesting an imminent takeover bid caused its shares to skyrocket.
There have been some knee-jerk reactions to call for more laws and regulations to cover such situations. I would argue strongly that the existing Corporations Act and other Crimes Acts deal with all these issues adequately and it is up to the regulators to investigate and enforce if necessary.
It is important that activists should use every method and in particular the power of the media and social networking to get the relevant message out to the public or target audience, but to stay within the boundaries of the law. Having any criminal conviction against your name does not help the environment nor your personal standing.
George Crisp
Medical Practitioner
Staying within the law, as you suggest, is all well and good. But what if there is a real injustice and there is no response to continued action ?
It is unlikely that previous social changes eg civil rights, sufferage etc would have been resolved without illegal action.
In this instance, climate change ( and for that matter local environmental harm from pollution ) is clearly an injustice and the perpetrators are not heeding calls for restraint. Indeed they are protected by our laws.
It…
Read moreGary Myers
logged in via LinkedIn
If you perceive 'real injustice' and can't get significant numbers of people to agree with you, enough numbers to be a political force, then it is time to consider that you are the one that is wrong.
George Crisp
Medical Practitioner
There is little doubt that the enormous cost of coal will be recognised and that climate change must be addressed, the problem is one of time, or lack thereof.
That is why it is so important that there are people like Johnathon Moylan.
Achieving social and political change requires leaders.
Ulf Steinvorth
Doctor
It's always a good time to consider that we are wrong - but banking on the 'majority' being automatically right has lead to far worse disasters than the temporary loss of a few million dollars in the last century.
Throughout history lone dissenters were accused of and tried for being 'enemies of the people/God/Communism/King/Queen/Country...' - and yet in retrospect often they proved the few upright men and women upholding morality and faith in a deranged society that has declared madness as reason and injustice law.
James Jenkin
EFL Teacher Trainer
Hi Ulf, you mention lone dissenters have fought for causes that turned out to be right. You suggest breaking the law has been justified.
I'm interested - what constraints should there be on behaviour, if majority opinion and legality are irrelevant? WHat should happen to me if I rob a bank for what I believe is a good cause?
Mike Hansen
Mr
"WHat should happen to me if I rob a bank for what I believe is a good cause?"
It was inevitable that someone would make that argument - it is now called "Cory Bernardi's slippery slope" .
John Phillip
John Phillip is a Friend of The Conversation.
Grumpy Old Man
Nothing slippery about it. The argument stands - only the percieved level of criminality differs.
Robert McDougall
Small Business Owner
someone has to start somewhere, and that person is normally persecuted for challenging the "business as usual" model. Slavery was also legal once, took a few years of shooting the discontents before that changed too.
Ulf Steinvorth
Doctor
Thank you for pointing out the slippery end of this issue James, an age-old ethical and philosophical conundrum to which I certainly do not have the answer either.
Yet if you read my comment carefully you will find that I do not suggest that breaking the law in this particular case (if any law is indeed broken which has yet to be ascertained) is justified.
I made the point that throughout history what is legally right in one country at one time might well be morally wrong, repulsive and abhorrent…
Read moreLuke Weston
Physicist / electronic engineer
Furthermore, the fact that the Australian Greens have applauded this illegal fraud does not bode well for their legal and economic responsibility in office, unless perhaps some more responsible members of the party can accept that endorsing such activity is not sensible behaviour.
Mike Hansen
Mr
Get a grip on your pomposity Luke.
All over the world statues are erected to people (we call them heroes) who have broken the law in support of a higher cause. Of course it requires being on the winning side and can take decades before the virtue of such action is recognised. In the case of coal mining we do not need to wait - the science tells us now that it needs to be stopped - the Greens should be applauded for their courage in supporting Moylan.
My only issue with Moylan's action is that being in jail or being heavily fined is not the answer for everyone. Ultimately a campaign that involves a much larger group of young people needs to be built.
Suzy Gneist
logged in via Facebook
Nelson mandella's credibility in government was not affected by being labelled a terrorist and incarcerated by a previous government. You cannot always judge in the present what 'responsible' behaviour entails until the future consequences become obvious.
John Phillip
John Phillip is a Friend of The Conversation.
Grumpy Old Man
Bullshit, Mike. the Greens, by their vocal support for this moron ( or 'hero', as you put it) have demonstrated that they are unfit to represent the law abiing citizens of this country.
Robert McDougall
Small Business Owner
I don't know John, i kinda like what he did, at least i got a laugh out of it. While politically Ms Milne saying what she did was probably not the best, Mr Brown probably wouldnt have. However it is in keeping with a central plank of the Greens platform, that of moving away from fossil fuels and mitigating the expansion of the resources industry into environmentally valuable and sensitive regions.
Supporters of the Greens are not likely to change their voting intentions over it.
John Phillip
John Phillip is a Friend of The Conversation.
Grumpy Old Man
Robert, personally I haven't got much time for large corporations and I can see the funny side of them getting a black eye out of this. What does concern me is the way that this bloke is getting treated as some sort of do-gooding hero. He stepped outside of the law to foist his personal views on the populace. The problem with supporting this bloke and validating his actions is that it opens the door for anyone who has strong beliefs about any issue to take those same actions.
I agree with your view that it wont lose the greens any of their core votes, but it does serve to clearly locate them outside of valid, legal political protest - it sort of backs up the view held by some that the Greens are too closely aligned with the lunatic or extremist fringes. Cheers.
Suzy Gneist
logged in via Facebook
"lunatic or extremist fringes" is a big value judgement < do you mean those who have radically different views to your own? (which you may consider 'sane and average')
I for one would not want the Greens to cram to closely towards right of centre next to the other two major parties, I prefer choice - and blue+red+green = undistinguished brown :(
John Phillip
John Phillip is a Friend of The Conversation.
Grumpy Old Man
What I mean by that comment Suzy is that it is impossible to take a party that supports lies and fraud to achieve its goals as a feasible alternative government. The very functioning of government rests upon the rule of law. Hence, by lending the support it has to the illegal (? probably) actions of this lout, the Green party has declared its willingness to lie, decieve and break the law in order to imose its views and policies.
Robert McDougall
Small Business Owner
You could take that view, but history is replete with examples of people who have done just that, and later been recognised as the right thing to do.
There is always an extreme element associated with any political party. It could also be argued that the LNP are too close to extremist neo-liberalists who are more concerned with making a buck than the long term survival of our species, that the ALP is too closely allied with personal empire builders in the union movement.
Personally i'd be more prepared to spend time with a tree hugger than a corporate raider.
Robert McDougall
Small Business Owner
lol, john, lies and fraud to achieve government? where have you been? they all do that, it's called politics, where the line "its the perception of the truth that counts" comes from
Suzy Gneist
logged in via Facebook
Yes, lies and deceit, even fraud, have been evident in all our political parties - like all human foibles, they are individual as well as group failings and I bet as an individual, most people have committed one or two (hopefully minor, but then where does one draw the line when something impacts another?).
John Phillip
John Phillip is a Friend of The Conversation.
Grumpy Old Man
Robert, I think you are probably correct to some degree, however, whilst the Greens persist with closed (or partial access) national conferences and publicly support the use of fraudulent activities such as Mr Moylan's, they will remain a fringe group.
John Phillip
John Phillip is a Friend of The Conversation.
Grumpy Old Man
Suzy, I accept that wonder boy was of stout heart when he perpetrated his act and that we've all probably crossed boundaries at times. What I truly hope happens is that he is prosecuted and receives consequences for his illegal actions. We live in a world in which money, individual wealth and the functioning of our society relies on a range of mechanisms, the stock market being a part of that. The excuses for Moylan's actions being proffered by some (i.e. that the system is corrupt and gave us the GFC etc.) highlight the fragility of that system. Moylan attacked a vulnerable, imperfect system at its core - its only true 'currency', confidence. It is for the same reasons that the scumbags who brought us the GFC should be jailed, that Moylan should face prosecution.
Suzy Gneist
logged in via Facebook
I do question the significance of "money, individual wealth and the functioning of our society relies on a range of mechanisms, the stock market being a part of that" - wealth cannot be defined solely as money, our principal common wealth are the natural assets we share in this country and planet.
Read moreFunctioning of society depends on many more fundamental mechanisms than the stock market - like clean water, food, ecosystem diversity, etc - society would not end if all stock markets closed tomorrow…
John Phillip
John Phillip is a Friend of The Conversation.
Grumpy Old Man
Suzy, my point was that if you stop the money all of the services etc that you've mentioned stop as well. You end up with the nightmare scenario that all those ' doomsday preppers' shows on tv are about. Put it this way - would you go to work if you weren't getting paid? Look at the countries that have implemented austerity measures and the socail upheaval that has caused. We have to extricate oursleves from this gloabal dependence on diminishing resources and our labyrinthine economic ponzi scheme but it has to be done gently, gradually and carefully if we are to avoid the violence and destruction that comes with rapid, radical change.
Robert McDougall
Small Business Owner
We are going to have to change eventually. If we continue with the current system, it is an end game. Even Keynes said this.
They say if you do what you love, you don't work a day. Also we are not entirely profit driven species, look at volunteers who perform invaluable services and don't expect to get paid.
Unfortunately as a species, we don't like to change until we have to. Unfortunately those with the greatest ability to enable change are vested in the status quo.
Robert McDougall
Small Business Owner
Perhaps, time will tell.
On the flip side, all those closed, behind closed doors meetings between the alp, lnp and big business lobby groups resulting in laws being changed and special deals announced that give the appearance of develop everything for short term gain to potential long term loss of clean water, air, food and loss of habitat and biodiversity, could just as easily move people who are concerned about these things closer to the greens, who seem to be the only party focused on these issues.
Who can say how it will all pan out.
Suzy Gneist
logged in via Facebook
On that view we differ, I do not believe all services and work would stop if money supply is disrupted - people have skills and need to eat, money is just one means of exchange for these transactions.
Read moreI do not believe in doomsday scenarios but in people and their ability to adapt, innovate and continue to transact through locally adapted 'markets' (LETS, community credit, etc). Yes, I would continue to work at many things I do which provide a benefit to myself and others - I would spend my time…
George Michaelson
Person
I'm confused. You cite the law that fraud demands a profit motive on the part of the person committing fraud (if I paraphrase) and then clearly understand the civil disobedience motivation was not motivated by personal profit.
You state that false information is the catchphrase in the law, and that he has liability facing this.
But then you say
<quote>The fact that this is the third such fraud in the last six months, the others being a false takeovers of David Jones and MacMahon Holdings, could really begin to undermine the confidence in the ASX.</quote>
and repeat the fraud word. If its not fraud, its not the third such fraud. Its the third recent incidence of false information, and it risks the confidence in the ASX, but its not the third fraud.
Mike Swinbourne
logged in via Facebook
I think you were doing reasonably well in your comments right up until the end Michael, then you said this:
"...Having any criminal conviction against your name does not help the environment nor your personal standing...."
I can't disagree more. Jonathon Moylan has done a great job bringing this issue to the attention of the wider community. As the Minister for School Education once said:
"....Will you know it when you see it
High risk children dogs of war
Now market movements call the shots
Business deals in parking lots
Waiting for the meat of tomorrow
Everyone is too stoned to start emission
People too scared to go to prison
We're unable to make decisions
Political party line don't cross that floor ..."
We need more people like Moylan - not less. People who aren't scared to take on the market forces and who are prepared to go to prison if that's what it takes to change things.
Anthony Nolan
Ruminant
Well said mate.
However, better on the run than in prison. What we really need is an underground that feeds, nurtures and protects these young people.
Anyone not considering fomenting insurrection and rebellion hasn't read the science.
Steve Hindle
logged in via email @bigpond.com
Here is a hypothetical way to make money,
As a greedy and unethical mining investor you secretly pay an extreme environmentalist to create a hoax price fall in a mining company. You can then make great profits in shorting the stock and buying in before the price recovers.
Provided the hoaxer successfully evades jail and cries poor to any fines, he or she can become a hero before other environmentalists and secretly collect payment later.
The money has effectively been stolen from the superannuation accounts of ordinary people.
Mike Hansen
Mr
Oh no - not another Cory Bernadi "slippery slope" argument.
Followed by faux outrage.
"The money has effectively been stolen from the superannuation accounts of ordinary people"
So Steve - I take it you are part of a campaign to jail the captains of Wall Street and their collaborators in Australia for the money stolen from superannuation accounts during the GFC. Hundreds of books written on how financial derivatives were little more than a Ponzi scheme and not a single prosecution - rather the banksters where bailed out with taxpayer funds.
Steve Hindle
logged in via email @bigpond.com
Mike,
With respect, you are reading way too much into my hypothetical and making wrong assumptions about my views.
The financial markets should be used to make ethical long term investments. I don't support the wild gambling and cheating that has destroyed so much of peoples savings. Yes, there are many people on Wall St that should be in jail.
Peter Ormonde
Peter Ormonde is a Friend of The Conversation.
Farmer
Has it? Been "stolen" from the super funds of ordinary people?
You mean our skimpy fragile savings are subject to gossip and rumour? That our welfare is in the hands of speculation and misinformation????
Oh my god! How did this happen? What is to be done?
Don't you folks understand how a stock market works? It's ALL rumour and gossip. And 90% is wrong and deliberately so.
The real worry is that, if you are correct, our super is in the hands of folks who make decisions based on such flimsy evidence. That should be of deep concern.
Tim Scanlon
Debunker
I want to know if the media that spread the false report will be held accountable.
You would think that someone would have had the time to fact check (email, phone call) before making it public. But isn't the share market also meant to be making decisions upon good information? So where was their fact checking? Once again, one phone call or email could have cleared it up.
At what point will we not be able to tell the difference between a hoax or a joke and real information?
Anthony Nolan
Ruminant
Oh Michael Adams, Dean of a Law School, even if it is at Western Sydney, such learning, such concern for the law, for what is righteous and proper and above all such warm hearted concern for the future of this brave young man. So tender, so considred, so balanced.
What weasel words.
What you miss entirely, perhaps because of the constant company of lawyers whose presence is as soporofic as ubiquitous air conditioning, is the sense of urgency that young people such as Jonathan experience when…
Read moreAnthony Nolan
Ruminant
Oh, hang on a sec. I'll have a second bite at this over ripe, indeed rotten, cherry.
Market credibility?
You've heard of the Global Financial Crisis, yeah?
Goldman and Sachs?
Roll over professor. The forks up your ass and your done.
Hahahahahahahahahahaha.
Anthony Nolan
Ruminant
Oh whoa, I'm having a ball here!
Professor, did you mean creditability or credibility? There's a difference, you know.
Spokespersons for 'tha market' seem to be less and less literate these days. No surprises there.
Hi to everyone hangin' out in the forests.
Mike Hansen
Mr
For those who question the banner in the photo that introduces this article. "Smart Investors dump Whitehaven Coal".
Check out
http://www.carbontracker.org/carbonbubble
"We now have around 7 trillion subprime carbon assets in the global economy and their value, like the subprime mortgages, is based on an assumption that is highly questionable." Al Gore
According to the most likely projections by climate scientists, “at least one-half of fossil fuel assets will have to be left in the ground,” said Nick Robins, head of the HSBC climate change centre of excellence in London. “We’re still pricing [companies in the extractives sector] as if they are all going to be exploited.” “This is a particular concern for the UK as our stock market is overweight fossil fuels,” he said, creating the risk of stranded assets.
Ulf Steinvorth
Doctor
Confidence in the ASX? Do I gather correctly that after the biggest man-made melt-down of the stock market since the great Depression the legal professions' main concern is with some hippie hoaxing ever gullible, greedy and ignorant market players into a temporary drop of share value?
What about chasing some of those criminals who actually and forever wiped millions and billions of public dollars off our accounts, robbing the world of savings, government budgets and superannuation? Ah but no, they do not have a political agenda, only want to enrich themselves and their companies...
What was that definition of fraud again?
John C Smith
Auditor
Poor beggar, not a journalist or a radio or tv shock jock.
Robin Bell
Research Academic Public Health, at University of Newcastle
I think your analysis is flawed Michael. Civil disobedience is usually characterised by a more directly related act than Mr Moylan's. Chaining ones self to a gate or tree, marching in the streets when such marches are deemed illegal, directly stopping a development or industrial activity by blockade or protest, etc.
Read moreMr Moylan's act did nothing to directly effect or stop the mining activities he opposed. His act was entirely about getting media attention for his oinions by causing massive damage…
Mike Hansen
Mr
Robin - this is more ideological rant than argument. How about providing a few facts.
For example
"A cowardly and thoughtless act that harmed people unrelated to the mining project he opposed"
Do you have some evidence for that claim?
"He has in effect destroyed the hard earned assets of many Australians"
Do you have some evidence for that claim?
On the other hand, there is plenty of evidence for the proposition that coal mining will eventually do large amounts of harm to all the residents…
Read moreMike Hansen
Mr
Why is Tony Abbott not being prosecuted for claiming that the carbon tax would devastate the coal mining industry.
How many "mum and dad" investors lost money because of Abbott's claims. Where was your outrage then Robin?
http://www.couriermail.com.au/business/tony-abbott-says-carbon-tax-will-devastate-coal-industry-like-summer-flooding/story-e6freqmx-1226095583849
John Phillip
John Phillip is a Friend of The Conversation.
Grumpy Old Man
Shut up Mike. Robin nailed it. Rather than the fawning deification of this loat that you demonstrate, she has clearly articulated the flaws in you position. Well done Robin. Let's hope that there remains some semblance of respect for the law at the Conversation.
Mike Swinbourne
logged in via Facebook
"Shut up Mike".
Well done John. You have persuaded me with your eloquence and well reasoned argument. You really destroyed Mike Hansen with your logic and evidence.
Alernatively..............
You could actually try and address what he asked. Mike asked for Robin for the evidence to support her (his?) claims, and none has yet been forthcoming.
You have been banging on and on about 'respect for the law' etc, so I guess you are one of those people who think that the laws is always correct, and that civil disobedience and breaking the law are always wrong. Is that right? Or is it ok to do so - as long as you agree with the cause?
I wonder what you think about people like Ghandi, Suu Kyi, Mandella, Rosa Parks etc. Nevermind, I already know the answer. You would have told them to 'Shut up", because they were obviously nothing more than 'louts'.
Robert McDougall
Small Business Owner
Sorry Robin, have to disagree with the statement "destroyed the hard earned assets of many Australians". The share value recovered and the ASX can undo the transactions.
Particularly when resource companies move into an area and in reality actually do "destroy the hard earned assets of many Australians" as in the erosion of private equity, displacement of existing industries and disposession of whole communities.
The problem with traditional means of protesting in the modern world is that they don't even rate a mention in the media, in terms of obtaining attention, this guy has been incredibly successful. Could be the next Bob Brown in the making.
Suzy Gneist
logged in via Facebook
I agree Robert, there are tangible assets and then there are speculative assets - the destruction of which can only be virtual. Speculative assets cannot really be destroyed, whereas our forests, farmland and even townships are actually wiped out forever through the expansion of fossil fuel mining. Which destruction is more final?
John Phillip
John Phillip is a Friend of The Conversation.
Grumpy Old Man
More eloquent bullshit from the looney left. The guy is just a narcissistic lout who 'knows what's best' for the rest of us plebs and idiots like yourself and the Greens encourage him. Robin was absolutely correct and Mike failed to counter the points she made.
Felix MacNeill
Environmental Manager
John, why don't you just work out the typographical sign for blowing your raspberry and simply set up a bot to post it every five minutes on this site? It would have to same impact on the actual contents of the discussion.
Mike Swinbourne
logged in via Facebook
"...More eloquent bullshit from the looney left...."
At least it was eloquent. Your diatribes are anything but.
John Phillip
John Phillip is a Friend of The Conversation.
Grumpy Old Man
I'd love to, Felix.
John Phillip
John Phillip is a Friend of The Conversation.
Grumpy Old Man
Well thanks for the acknowledgement Oh Great One.
John Phillip
John Phillip is a Friend of The Conversation.
Grumpy Old Man
Mike, I am disappointed, but not surprised, that you cant differentiate between our intrepid property vandal and fraudulent lout, Mr Moylan, and those such as Ghandi et al. If you really believe that Whitehaven is the equivalent to apartheid seek help.
You ask for Robin to back her position up with facts. Why don you tell us what the cost of Whitehaven's coal is to the environment - not in some broad sense of 'coal is bad' but facts and figures about the company, the CO2 its coal produces and the effects of Mr Moylan's wet dream - the imagined closure of the company- on global emissions?
Robert McDougall
Small Business Owner
wow.
On the flip side, Gina knows best, look at her 7 point plan for australia.
One motivated by personal concern for the direction the planet is heading.
The other motivated by personal greed.
Both have their supporters.
Robert McDougall
Small Business Owner
Wow again.
No one knows what the true cost is I suggest because they really don't want to know. Economics, being the last word these days.
I suspect if you factor in all the externalised costs including health, subsidies, pollution, loss of biodiversity, climate impacts etc, fossil fuels would not be economic at all.
If I didn't include all the costs associated with a business, such as rent, overheads, taxation costs, marketing etc and only counted the cost of goods, I'd be making super profits too.
Suzy Gneist
logged in via Facebook
We seem to have lost all perspective in what is real and what is constructed. The environment and its role for life support and continuity is real. The ASX and the virtual units it trades is constructed. The necessity of the former underlies the optional existence of the latter.
Any design student can whip up a fake advert, media release, campaign which, if it goes viral, can influence people's actions (think how many believed the eagle takes baby YouTube) - in the end, those who believe without critical thinking can only blame themselves for their ignorance. The biggest contribution Jonathan has brought to this is to make people think - as a student, that assignment would have been judged an effective, if radical, HD no doubt! Blame should go to those (ANZ and media) incompetent on the job.
Sarah James
Psychologist
So when mining billionaires and politicians say our investment environment would be akin to a dysfunctional African nation beacuse of the mining tax weren't they deceiving investors? There were after all people who pulled their shares out of Australian mines after the mining tax.
Why is it OK for some people to lie, and not others?
Mike Hansen
Mr
Absolutely Sarah.
Why is Tony Abbott not being prosecuted for claiming that the carbon tax would devastate the coal mining industry.
How many "mum and dad" investors lost money because of Abbott's claims
http://www.couriermail.com.au/business/tony-abbott-says-carbon-tax-will-devastate-coal-industry-like-summer-flooding/story-e6freqmx-1226095583849
John Phillip
John Phillip is a Friend of The Conversation.
Grumpy Old Man
Too right Mike. Why isnt Julia Gillard being prosecuted for promising that 'there will be no carbon tax under a government I lead"?
John Phillip
John Phillip is a Friend of The Conversation.
Grumpy Old Man
Oh, that's right. She's not.
Mike Swinbourne
logged in via Facebook
I think that's Mike's point, John. Pity you missed it.
Prosecution is not appropropriate in this case - if it were then people like Abbott should also be prosecuted for their actions which undemined investor confidence. You know - being consistent and all that.
Robert McDougall
Small Business Owner
political realities intervened.
Michael Swifte
writer
Another term for the "concept of efficient market hypotheses" is 'sentiment driven impetuousness' a trait the stock markets have never been able to shake.
Jonathon Moylan exploited this. He tipped over the first domino and the market did the rest.
Unlike most corporate criminals and dodgy politicians he confessed and told the whole truth. He is braving dealing with the consequences.
Bravo.
Angus M-a-c-i-n-n-is
logged in via Twitter
What Mr Moylan did is not to be admired, but it is disappointing that an author with the expertise to put some context around the consequence of Mr Moylan's actions has not done so.
Whitehaven has on issue, according to its 2012 annual report,1,013,190,387 ordinary shares. On the day of the hoax, total turnover was 9,091,624 - that is, less than 1% of Whitehaven's shares changed hands. That is, for more than 99% of the shares which did not change hands, the intra-day slump in the share price…
Read moreComment removed by moderator.
Peter Ormonde
Peter Ormonde is a Friend of The Conversation.
Farmer
Ah yes Michael... all those poor small shareholders - the mums and dads sitting at home breathlessly screaming at their brokers to dump Whitecliff. before it goes to hell. On all the strength of a rumour.
Illustrate for me how these battler investors actually "lost money" - explain the steps by which it transpired? A theoretical crime methinks. Requires quite specific conditions to demonstrate financial loss.
And at least a standard wilful fraud charge without a profit motive is a difficult…
Read moreMichael Swifte
writer
Yes Peter, Well pointed out. Tinklers antics did make it seem probable. Seems the market still wanted to follow the mad man driving the gravy train.
A great case!
Pamela H.
logged in via email @hotmail.com
'Whitehaven'. Such a nice clean name (or misnomer) for such a dirty, destructive business. A wolf in sheep's clothing. It's time we worked a bit harder on our addiction to the filthy black stuff.
Pamela H.
logged in via email @hotmail.com
It's so refreshing to see a man with a concience who is working for the greater good instead of self serving profit. More power to you Johathan Moylan! It's so sad that our country has swung back so far back to the Right, that thinking men like him are now a rare breed.
Steve Hindle
logged in via email @bigpond.com
Pamela,
Would it be acceptable for "..a man with a conscience who is working for the greater good.." to make a bomb threat against an airliner carrying senior coal executives to their annual general meeting?
Who gets to draw the line on civil disobedience?
Mike Hansen
Mr
More Cory Bernardi slippery slopism - but Steve I see that you are now making your straw men EVEN BIGGER.
Moylan did not make a bomb threat - you attempt at conflation is pathetic.
Steve Hindle
logged in via email @bigpond.com
At no time did I say Moylan made a bomb threat. I have never spoken about Moylan.
If you want to respond to any comments, try doing it without making dishonest claims.
Robert McDougall
Small Business Owner
Steve, you are confusing a "threat to life" with a "threat to imaginary money"
Robert McDougall
Small Business Owner
could also be argued that the approval of the coal mine is a "threat to life", hence action is required to be taken to preserve that life. it's all in your point of view
Steve Hindle
logged in via email @bigpond.com
No confusion Robert, they are both unlawful.
The confusion starts when people start to argue that it is ok to break some laws but not others.
Robert McDougall
Small Business Owner
This is where we get into the murky realm of ethics and morality.
Laws change, they are not perfect and sometimes bad law is enacted. although something may be "unlawful", it may also be morally and ethicly correct.
Some activities that are "lawful" may be morally and ethically incorrect.
depends entirely upon your point of view. It may have at one time been lawful to sell products in the open market filled with asbestos, even when the company mining and manufacturing knew that it would kill people. same with tobacco.
Purely hypothetically, if there was a law enacted that required all women who were pregnant and not married were by law required to have abortions or have their children removed from them at birth, would you consider any attempt for said women to keep their children unlawful, and thereby a wrong action?
Robert McDougall
Small Business Owner
acting within the law also gave us the GFC.
Perhaps radical action serves to highlight where the laws are failing the needs of society as a whole?
Perhaps a couple of radical actions when CDO's were just getting started may have been enough to prompt a review of the "law" to prevent the damage that has occured after the fact.
No law is perfect. Laws change and should. Politicians make the laws and are reactive, not pro-active.
Peter Rutherford
logged in via email @yahoo.com.au
I have seen a number of comments in recent days supporting the action of the Whitehaven hoaxer. While ever it is some other party, preferably big business, that is on the receiving end, it seems a range of people, including professionals, such as farmers and medical practitioners, support this type of economic sabotage.
Would these professionals be as supportive of these or other activists seeking "justice" outside the legal system to address some animal rights or medical negligence issue, if…
Read moreRobert McDougall
Small Business Owner
also one mans bandit is another mans hero, point of view determines which.
I wouldn't point the finger at the populace re coal fired power stations. We probably would have completely clean and renewable energy all over the place by now if the fossil fuel industry hasn't been eviscerating any other potential forms of energy for the past 60 years.
Or if the US government had gone Liquid Fuel Thorium Nuclear Reactors rather than solid fuel Uranium reactors, the first has so many benefits over and above the second, but the second had a useful bi-product, weapons grade fissionable materials.
Or if the Australian Government (both parties) weren't owned by the fossil fuel companies and actually supported the establishment and development of renewable energies. Point the finger at the people who have the most to gain by retaining fossil fuels, where alternatives would have been available without their scheming.
Suzy Gneist
logged in via Facebook
Encouraging to see some respectable Australian people are happy to be seen standing alongside the 'outlaw' http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10200323856321362&set=o.146006968886446&type=1&ref=nf
Pat Moore
gardener
Neither "public nuisance" nor "fraud".
But admirable public service and deep moral commitment.
As Australia roasts & burns & the CO2 chickens come home to roost ( & toast) the business as usual status quo of privileged white men in suits is no longer tenable. Reality has changed. The message is that investing in coal & coal fired power and exporting it to massive Chinese & Indian CO2 atmospheric pumps is not only unethical, it's destructive of life on Earth. It's betting on & profiting from death & destruction.
Peter Redshaw
Retired
I do not know, the legality or not of Moylan's action, but what he has done is to remind everyone of the flaws and weaknesses of the current market system. It demonstrates how much this system has been set up as simply a reactionary investment process rather than one based on a proper check and verification of the facts. And it says very little if anything has changed since the GFC hit in changing the culture and practices of the market. The market continues to act on greed and fear. Facts, or…
Read moreMartin Male
logged in via Facebook
Whilst I openly agree with the methods used by Jonathan Moylan for this valid cause, as usual the main issue here is being avoided,due diligence. It is another example of how the media avoid a real issue and attack the messenger;).
How many times have large amounts of the share price of a company been 'wiped "out by rumour mongering or false information. As a director of a company and an investor it is my responsibility to check all information BEFORE I enact a trade. I find it amusing how the…
Read morePeter Ormonde
Peter Ormonde is a Friend of The Conversation.
Farmer
You raise an interesting question Martin - where are these aggrieved victims of Mr Moylan's cruel fib? Where are the queues of outraged mum and dad investors who fell foul of this "fraud"?
Haven't seen any. Have you?
The truth of it is that the sorts of folks who follow gossip and rumour with their punting and switch horses mid-sentence are most likely the very same folks who bought their own shares back after they'd probably lost a bit of money - most embarrassing.
Getting trampled in a stampede is nothing to be boasting about. Doing it twice - once going down and again coming back up - is tragically slapstick.
Should we start a tax-effective charity to help them out? "Sucker-aid."
Martin Male
logged in via Facebook
Hi Peter I see the dry farmer wit at work here. I grew up in central NSW. "Sucker-Aid" now there is an election policy for both sides ;)
AHH such cynicism
Alex Harris
Editor, Reputation Report
I agree, the existing laws are sufficient, however, there is a very significant point of difference between the examples quoted (David Jones, James Hardie etc) and the Moylen hoax.
Nor was the civil action brought by ASIC against James Hardie and its directors in the New South Wales Supreme Court about misleading media statements, but about misleading ASX announcements.
There is a critical, legal difference.
Do not misunderstand the prank by Moylen to be anything but that - a PR prank…
Read moreMartin Male
logged in via Facebook
Brilliantly expressed Thanks