tag:theconversation.com,2011:/ca/topics/t-rex-48323/articlesT. rex – The Conversation2024-03-22T01:42:23Ztag:theconversation.com,2011:article/2261162024-03-22T01:42:23Z2024-03-22T01:42:23ZTheatrical, camp and truly original: glam-rock pioneer Steve Harley’s influence lives on<p>Musician Steve Harley’s death last week came as a shock to me. After four months analysing his music and visual performances for my doctoral thesis on British glam rock, I’d come to feel like I somehow knew him. </p>
<p>The feeling was compounded by the fact Harley had answered some questions for me some years earlier and wished me well in my studies. To me, then, he was a nice, approachable person, generous with his time. He was also a unique and innovative musician, beginning with albums The Human Menagerie (1973) and The Psychomodo (1974), whose influence has extended well beyond the 1970s.</p>
<p>But Harley has received much less scholarly attention than his glam-rock-era peers. David Bowie, in particular, has (rightfully) been the subject of books, symposiums and university courses. And scholars around the world have analysed glam rock itself in its various forms and incarnations. </p>
<p>Harley, however, is notably absent from these discussions. One reason is that glam-rock scholarship is still growing, with much still to do. Another reason may be that Harley is not as easily categorised as other glam-rock musicians.</p>
<p>While many were androgynous, for instance, Harley was relatively understated. Musically, too, Steve Harley & Cockney Rebel broke the rock ‘n’ roll mould, opting for an electric violin instead of electric guitars. </p>
<p>Without the electric guitar, there was room for Harley to perform with a certain theatricality, both vocally and as reflected in the band’s often lush instrumentation. In 1974’s <a href="https://youtu.be/msNpHDaD32I?si=O6B7ilwvcj7no3JS">Tumbling Down</a>, Harley laments what’s been done to the blues, accompanied by a full choir, orchestra and sentimental flourishes. </p>
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<h2>Musical melodrama</h2>
<p>While glam-era Bowie was theatrical in a stagey, physical sense – the Ziggy Stardust live concerts being the prime example – Harley’s theatricality was different. He drew from Berlin cabaret, among other such influences, but went beyond that, offering shimmering, shivering musical melodrama that departed from the usual glam-rock formulas. </p>
<p>While glam band The Sweet were campy in a comedic way, Steve Harley’s camp lay in his <a href="https://www.tate.org.uk/art/art-terms/f/fin-de-siecle">fin de siècle</a>, dramatic excess. Imagine the orchestral flourish of Bowie’s Life On Mars? (1971), but filtered through a candlelit, absinthe-driven night in Paris. </p>
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<p>Even his more upbeat tracks – <a href="https://youtu.be/HJI1Mt73rNM?si=60ZTbJVo_JpXF2Sg">Sweet Dreams</a> (1974) or <a href="https://youtu.be/VZ7kQwa6X7g?si=gi8VgSIivPvF9mSM">Psychomodo</a> (1974), for example – embody a quirky angularity that recalls the visual style of a German Expressionist film. </p>
<p>At the same time, such songs anticipated the vocal styles of later art-rock, punk and new-wave singers. Harley’s sense of camp can also be found in his key influences: Busby Berkeley musicals and Marlene Dietrich.</p>
<p>Filmmaker Todd Haynes insightfully layered Harley’s musical melodrama into the more decadently theatrical moments of his 1998 glam-rock film <a href="https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120879/">Velvet Goldmine</a>. Actor Jonathan Rhys Meyers performs Tumbling Down in blue-green body paint and pastel feather boa on an elaborate staircase and, finally, on top of an ornate chandelier. </p>
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<h2>Make Me Smile</h2>
<p>Harley is most remembered, of course, for the 1975 hit <a href="https://youtu.be/dAoaVU3-ve0?si=mqdInFJvNgJg8Vel">Make Me Smile (Come Up And See Me)</a>, his most upbeat, conventionally “pop” single. Its welcoming acoustic guitar strum and catchy melody – replete with “ooh la la la la” backing vocals – has been covered more than 100 times, notably as the B-side to Duran Duran’s The Reflex in 1984. </p>
<p>Cheerful, charming and representative of Harley’s poppier sensibilities, Make Me Smile is also an exception. It departs from the often dark elegance of The Human Menagerie or The Psychomodo albums, and from the off-kilter circus-cabaret of his other glam-era pop single <a href="https://youtu.be/Z5NPfHk5Ycs?si=F5aCqwt5sVLcWTb8">Mr. Soft</a> (1974). </p>
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<p>Like the other “serious” glam rockers of the era – such as Roxy Music’s Brian Eno – Harley didn’t really think of himself as a glam-rock artist. Nevertheless, he’s considered a key figure in “high glam” – the artier type, embodied by David Bowie and early Roxy Music. </p>
<p>High glam required a sort of intellectualism, and an intellectual distance from the broader glam-rock genre. It was a world away from Slade’s Cum On Feel The Noize or The Sweet’s party-rock stompers. Its cerebral artiness – including its denial of being glam rock at all – was what defined it. </p>
<h2>Once and future glam</h2>
<p>British glam rock met the end of its cycle in the mid-1970s. Bowie moved on, Eno left Roxy Music, and The Sweet broke up with their songwriters to become the hard-rock band they always wanted to be. </p>
<p>Like Bowie, Harley endured – releasing new music and touring regularly. Glam rock has both morphed and echoed throughout the decades, emerging in new wave, glam metal and Britpop’s more glamorous, Bowie-influenced artists (Suede, Pulp). Most recently, glam has resurfaced in decadent Italian rockers <a href="https://maneskin.com/">Måneskin</a>. </p>
<p>Until late last year, Harley had planned to tour. He cancelled on receiving a cancer diagnosis, and his death was swift. Along with Bowie, <a href="https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/t-rex-guitarist-marc-bolan-dies-in-car-accident-204436/">Marc Bolan</a> and most of the original members of The Sweet, Steve Harley has joined that growing pantheon of glam-era musicians who are no longer with us. </p>
<p>With Make Me Smile (Come Up And See Me) now played in his honour, we should also remember him as a key and innovative figure in a pivotal rock era.</p><img src="https://counter.theconversation.com/content/226116/count.gif" alt="The Conversation" width="1" height="1" />
<p class="fine-print"><em><span>Alison Blair does not work for, consult, own shares in or receive funding from any company or organisation that would benefit from this article, and has disclosed no relevant affiliations beyond their academic appointment.</span></em></p>Steve Harley, who died last week, deserves greater recognition for his contribution to the glam-rock genre and to music in general.Alison Blair, Teaching Fellow in Music, University of OtagoLicensed as Creative Commons – attribution, no derivatives.tag:theconversation.com,2011:article/1736342022-02-01T13:14:21Z2022-02-01T13:14:21ZDid male and female dinosaurs differ? A new statistical technique is helping answer the question<figure><img src="https://images.theconversation.com/files/443225/original/file-20220128-23-12zgv3p.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&rect=2%2C14%2C1950%2C1159&q=45&auto=format&w=496&fit=clip" /><figcaption><span class="caption">How can researchers tell if male and female dinosaurs, like the stegosaur, were different?</span> <span class="attribution"><a class="source" href="https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Journal.pone.0138352.g001A.jpg#/media/File:Journal.pone.0138352.g001A.jpg">Susannah Maidment et al. & Natural History Museum, London</a>, <a class="license" href="http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/">CC BY</a></span></figcaption></figure><p>In most animal species, <a href="https://doi.org/10.2307/2407393">males and females differ</a>. This is true for people and other mammals, as well as many species of birds, fish and reptiles. But what about dinosaurs? In 2015, I proposed that variation found in the iconic back plates of stegosaur dinosaurs was <a href="https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pone.0123503">due to sex differences</a>.</p>
<p>I was surprised by how strongly some of my colleagues <a href="https://doi.org/10.1017/pab.2016.51">disagreed</a>, arguing that differences between sexes, called sexual dimorphism, <a href="https://doi.org/10.2307/2407393">did not exist in dinosaurs</a>.</p>
<p><a href="https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=umU9KBMAAAAJ&hl=en&oi=ao">I am a paleontologist</a>, and the debate sparked by my 2015 paper has made me reconsider how researchers studying ancient animals use statistics. </p>
<p>The limited fossil record makes it hard to declare if a dinosaur was sexually dimorphic. But I and some others in my field are beginning to <a href="https://doi.org/10.1038/d41586-019-00857-9">shift away from traditional black-or-white statistical thinking</a> that relies on p-values and statistical significance to define a true finding. Instead of only looking for yes or no answers, we are beginning to consider the estimated magnitude of sexual variation in a species, the degree of uncertainty in that estimate and how these measures compare to other species. This approach offers a more nuanced analysis to challenging questions in paleontology as well as many other fields of science.</p>
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<a href="https://images.theconversation.com/files/443076/original/file-20220127-9640-1ercxvu.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=1000&fit=clip"><img alt="A very colorful duck standing next to a drab brown duck." src="https://images.theconversation.com/files/443076/original/file-20220127-9640-1ercxvu.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=754&fit=clip" srcset="https://images.theconversation.com/files/443076/original/file-20220127-9640-1ercxvu.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=600&h=450&fit=crop&dpr=1 600w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/443076/original/file-20220127-9640-1ercxvu.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=30&auto=format&w=600&h=450&fit=crop&dpr=2 1200w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/443076/original/file-20220127-9640-1ercxvu.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=15&auto=format&w=600&h=450&fit=crop&dpr=3 1800w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/443076/original/file-20220127-9640-1ercxvu.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=754&h=566&fit=crop&dpr=1 754w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/443076/original/file-20220127-9640-1ercxvu.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=30&auto=format&w=754&h=566&fit=crop&dpr=2 1508w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/443076/original/file-20220127-9640-1ercxvu.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=15&auto=format&w=754&h=566&fit=crop&dpr=3 2262w" sizes="(min-width: 1466px) 754px, (max-width: 599px) 100vw, (min-width: 600px) 600px, 237px"></a>
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<span class="caption">In many species, like these mandarin ducks, males (left) and females (right) look very different.</span>
<span class="attribution"><a class="source" href="https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Pair_of_mandarin_ducks.jpg">Francis C. Franklin via WikimediaCommons</a>, <a class="license" href="http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/">CC BY-SA</a></span>
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<h2>Differences between males and females</h2>
<p><a href="http://dx.doi.org/10.1007/978-3-319-47829-6_433-1">Sexual dimorphism</a> is when males and females of a certain species differ on average in a particular trait – not including their reproductive anatomy. Classic examples are how male deer have antlers and male peacocks have flashy tail feathers, while the females lack these traits.</p>
<p>Dimorphism can also be subtle and unflashy. Often the difference is one of degree, like differences in the average body size between males and females – as in <a href="https://doi.org/10.1007/s12110-012-9130-3">gorillas</a>. In these modest cases, researchers use statistics to determine whether a trait differs on average between males and females.</p>
<h2>The dinosaur dilemma</h2>
<p>Studying sexual dimorphism in extinct animals is fraught with uncertainty. If you and I independently dig up similar fossils of the same species, they are inevitably going to be slightly different. These differences could be due to sex, but they could also be driven by age – <a href="https://www.worldcat.org/title/avian-anatomy-integument/oclc/603445440&referer=brief_results">young birds are fuzzy, adult birds are sleek</a>. They could also be due to genetics unrelated to sex, like eye color in humans.</p>
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<a href="https://images.theconversation.com/files/437461/original/file-20211214-15-1gmw3ot.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=1000&fit=clip"><img alt="Two drawings of dinosaurs showing different shaped horns and frills." src="https://images.theconversation.com/files/437461/original/file-20211214-15-1gmw3ot.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=754&fit=clip" srcset="https://images.theconversation.com/files/437461/original/file-20211214-15-1gmw3ot.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=600&h=520&fit=crop&dpr=1 600w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/437461/original/file-20211214-15-1gmw3ot.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=30&auto=format&w=600&h=520&fit=crop&dpr=2 1200w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/437461/original/file-20211214-15-1gmw3ot.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=15&auto=format&w=600&h=520&fit=crop&dpr=3 1800w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/437461/original/file-20211214-15-1gmw3ot.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=754&h=653&fit=crop&dpr=1 754w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/437461/original/file-20211214-15-1gmw3ot.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=30&auto=format&w=754&h=653&fit=crop&dpr=2 1508w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/437461/original/file-20211214-15-1gmw3ot.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=15&auto=format&w=754&h=653&fit=crop&dpr=3 2262w" sizes="(min-width: 1466px) 754px, (max-width: 599px) 100vw, (min-width: 600px) 600px, 237px"></a>
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<span class="caption">It’s possible that variation among individual dinosaurs of the same species could be due to sexual dimorphism, but there are rarely good enough samples to assert so using traditional statistics.</span>
<span class="attribution"><span class="source">James Ormiston</span>, <a class="license" href="http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nd/4.0/">CC BY-ND</a></span>
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<p>If paleontologists had thousands of fossils to study of every species, the many sources of biological variation wouldn’t matter as much. Unfortunately, the <a href="https://doi.org/10.1002/bies.201700167">ravages of time</a> have left the fossil record painfully incomplete, often with less than a dozen good specimens for large, extinct vertebrate species. Additionally, there is currently no way to identify the sex of an individual fossil except in rare cases where obvious clues exist, like <a href="https://doi.org/10.1126/science.1110578">eggs preserved within the body cavity</a>. </p>
<p>So where does all this leave the debate on whether male and female dinosaurs had differences within traits? On the one hand, birds – which are direct descendants of dinosaurs – <a href="https://doi.org/10.1098/rspb.1998.0308">commonly show sexual dimorphism</a>. So do <a href="https://doi.org/10.18475/cjos.v45i1.a12">crocodilians</a>, dinosaurs’ next closest living relatives. Evolutionary theory also predicts that, since dinosaurs reproduced with sperm and egg, there would be a <a href="https://doi.org/10.1016/j.tree.2011.12.006">benefit to sexual dimorphism</a>.</p>
<p>These things all suggest that dinosaurs likely were sexually dimorphic. But in science you need to be quantitative. The challenge is that there is little in the way of <a href="https://doi.org/10.1017/pab.2016.51">statistically significant</a> analyses of the fossil record to support dimorphism. </p>
<h2>Statistical shifts</h2>
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<span class="caption">Very large sex differences can create a bimodal distribution that looks like two distinct groupings of a certain measurement.</span>
<span class="attribution"><a class="source" href="https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Bimodal.png">Maksim via WikimediaCommons</a>, <a class="license" href="http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/">CC BY</a></span>
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<p>There are a couple of ways paleontologists could test for sexual dimorphism. They could look to see if there are statistically significant differences between fossils from presumed males and females, but there are very few specimens where researchers <a href="https://doi.org/10.1073/pnas.0708903105">know the sex</a>. Another method is to see whether there are two distinct groupings of a trait, called a bimodal distribution, which could suggest a difference between males and females.</p>
<p>To tell whether a perceived difference between two groups is true, scientists have traditionally used a tool called the p-value. P-values quantify the probability of a result being due to random chance. If a p-value is low enough, the result is deemed “statistically significant” and considered unlikely to have happened by chance.</p>
<p>But p-values can be heavily influenced by sample size and the design of the study, in addition to the actual degree of sexual dimorphism. Because of the very small sample size of fossils, relying on this statistical technique makes it exceedingly difficult to categorically proclaim what dinosaur species were dimorphic. </p>
<p>The weakness of the black-or-white approach that focuses solely on whether a result is statistically significant has led to hundreds of scientists <a href="https://doi.org/10.1038/d41586-019-00857-9">calling to abandon significance testing with p-values</a> in favor of something called <a href="https://doi.org/10.1111/j.1469-185X.2007.00027.x">effect size statistics</a>. Using this approach, researchers would simply report the measured difference between two groups and the uncertainty in that measurement.</p>
<h2>Effect size statistics</h2>
<p>I have begun to apply effect size statistics in <a href="https://doi.org/10.1093/biolinnean/blaa105">my research on dinosaurs</a>. My colleagues and I compared sexual dimorphism in body size between three different dinosaurs: the duck-billed <em>Maiasaura</em>, <em>Tyrannosaurus rex</em> and <em>Psittacosaurus</em>, a small relative of <em>Triceratops</em>. None of these species would be expected to show statistically significant size differences between males and females according to p-values. But that approach does not capture the nature of the variation within these species. </p>
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<a href="https://images.theconversation.com/files/443567/original/file-20220131-15-3xspkd.jpeg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=1000&fit=clip"><img alt="A cast of a duck billed dinosaur fossil skeleton." src="https://images.theconversation.com/files/443567/original/file-20220131-15-3xspkd.jpeg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=754&fit=clip" srcset="https://images.theconversation.com/files/443567/original/file-20220131-15-3xspkd.jpeg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=600&h=400&fit=crop&dpr=1 600w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/443567/original/file-20220131-15-3xspkd.jpeg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=30&auto=format&w=600&h=400&fit=crop&dpr=2 1200w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/443567/original/file-20220131-15-3xspkd.jpeg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=15&auto=format&w=600&h=400&fit=crop&dpr=3 1800w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/443567/original/file-20220131-15-3xspkd.jpeg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=754&h=503&fit=crop&dpr=1 754w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/443567/original/file-20220131-15-3xspkd.jpeg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=30&auto=format&w=754&h=503&fit=crop&dpr=2 1508w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/443567/original/file-20220131-15-3xspkd.jpeg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=15&auto=format&w=754&h=503&fit=crop&dpr=3 2262w" sizes="(min-width: 1466px) 754px, (max-width: 599px) 100vw, (min-width: 600px) 600px, 237px"></a>
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<span class="caption">Using effect size statistics, researchers were able to determine that the duck-billed dinosaur <em>Maiasaura</em> showed a larger amount of dimorphism with the least uncertainty in that estimate compared to other dinosaurs.</span>
<span class="attribution"><a class="source" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maiasaura#/media/File:Maiasaura_peeblesorum_cast_-_University_of_California_Museum_of_Paleontology_-_Berkeley,_CA_-_DSC04688.JPG">Daderot via WikimediaCommons</a></span>
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<p>When we instead used effect size statistics, we were able to estimate that male and female <em>Maiasaura</em> demonstrate a greater difference in body mass compared to the other two species and that we had a higher confidence in this estimate as well. A few of the characteristics within the data helped reduce the uncertainty. First, we had a large number of <em>Maiasaura</em> fossils, from individuals of various ages. These bones very nicely fit with trajectories of how size changes as an individual grows from juvenile to adult, so we could control for differences due to age and instead focus on differences due to sex.</p>
<p>Additionally, the <em>Maiasaura</em> fossils all come from a <a href="https://doi.org/10.1017/pab.2015.19">single bone bed</a> of individuals that died in the same place at the same time. This means that variation between individuals is likely not due to them being different species from different regions or time periods. </p>
<p>If my colleagues and I had approached the problem expecting a yes or no answer on whether males and females differed in size, we would have completely missed all of these intricacies. Effect size statistics allow researchers to produce much more nuanced and, I think, informative results. It is almost as much a difference in the philosophical approach to science as it is a mathematical one.</p>
<p>Studying dinosaur dimorphism is not the only place p-values create issues. Many fields of science, including <a href="https://theconversation.com/the-replication-crisis-is-good-for-science-103736">medicine and psychology</a>, are having similar <a href="https://doi.org/10.1080/00031305.2018.1543137">debates about issues in statistics</a> and a worrying problem of <a href="https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pmed.0020124">unrepeatable studies</a>.</p>
<p>Embracing uncertainty in data – rather than looking for black-or-white answers to questions like whether male and female dinosaurs were sexually dimorphic – can help elucidate dinosaur biology. But this shift in thinking may be felt far and wide across the sciences. A careful consideration of problems within statistics could have deep impacts across many fields.</p>
<p>[<em>Understand new developments in science, health and technology, each week.</em> <a href="https://memberservices.theconversation.com/newsletters/?nl=science&source=inline-science-understand">Subscribe to The Conversation’s science newsletter</a>.]</p><img src="https://counter.theconversation.com/content/173634/count.gif" alt="The Conversation" width="1" height="1" />
<p class="fine-print"><em><span>Evan Thomas Saitta does not work for, consult, own shares in or receive funding from any company or organization that would benefit from this article, and has disclosed no relevant affiliations beyond their academic appointment.</span></em></p>The lack of large numbers of fossils makes it hard to study sexual dimorphism in dinosaurs. But a new statistical approach offers insight into this question and others across science.Evan Thomas Saitta, Postdoctoral Scholar in Paleontology, University of ChicagoLicensed as Creative Commons – attribution, no derivatives.tag:theconversation.com,2011:article/1590412021-04-16T20:16:33Z2021-04-16T20:16:33ZHow many ‘Tyrannosaurus rex’ walked the Earth?<figure><img src="https://images.theconversation.com/files/395507/original/file-20210416-21-215xck.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&rect=0%2C0%2C2269%2C1437&q=45&auto=format&w=496&fit=clip" /><figcaption><span class="caption">_Tyrannosaurus rex_ spanned all of ancient North America, and about 20,000 lived at once.</span> <span class="attribution"><a class="source" href="https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/illustration/tyrannosaurus-rex-dinosaur-royalty-free-illustration/99311107?adppopup=true">Roger Harris/Science Photo Library vie Getty Images</a></span></figcaption></figure><p><em>The <a href="https://theconversation.com/us/topics/research-brief-83231">Research Brief</a> is a short take about interesting academic work.</em></p>
<h2>The big idea</h2>
<p>During 2.4 million years of existence on Earth, a total of <a href="https://doi.org/10.1126/science.abc8300">2.5 billion <em>Tyrannosaurus rex</em> ever lived</a>, and 20,000 individual animals would have been alive at any moment, according to a new calculation method we <a href="https://doi.org/10.1126/science.abc8300">described in a paper published on April 15, 2021</a> in the journal Science.</p>
<p>To estimate population, our team of <a href="https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=5CGShQUAAAAJ&hl=en&oi=ao">paleontologists</a> and <a href="https://ib.berkeley.edu/labs/marshall/people.php">scientists</a> had to combine the extraordinarily comprehensive existing research on <em>T. rex</em> with an ecological principle that connects <a href="https://doi.org/10.1038/290699a0">population density to body size</a>.</p>
<p>From microscopic growth patterns in bones, researchers inferred that <em>T. rex</em> <a href="https://doi.org/10.1073/pnas.0708903105">first mated at around 15 years old</a>. With growth records, scientists can also generate survivorship curves – an estimate of a <a href="https://doi.org/10.1126/science.1125721"><em>T. rex</em>‘s chances of living to a given age</a>. Using these two numbers, our team estimated that <em>T. rex</em> generations took 19 years. Finally, <em>T. rex</em> existed as a species for <a href="https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pone.0188426">1.2 to 3.6 million years</a>. With all of this information, we calculate that <em>T. rex</em> existed for 66,000 to 188,000 generations. </p>
<p>From the fossil record alone, we had generated a <em>T. rex</em> turnover rate. If our team could estimate the number of individuals in each generation, we would know how many <em>T. rex</em> ever lived. </p>
<figure class="align-right zoomable">
<a href="https://images.theconversation.com/files/395516/original/file-20210416-13-n5nimm.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=1000&fit=clip"><img alt="A drawing of one elephant on the left next to dozens of rabbits on the right." src="https://images.theconversation.com/files/395516/original/file-20210416-13-n5nimm.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=237&fit=clip" srcset="https://images.theconversation.com/files/395516/original/file-20210416-13-n5nimm.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=600&h=345&fit=crop&dpr=1 600w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/395516/original/file-20210416-13-n5nimm.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=30&auto=format&w=600&h=345&fit=crop&dpr=2 1200w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/395516/original/file-20210416-13-n5nimm.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=15&auto=format&w=600&h=345&fit=crop&dpr=3 1800w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/395516/original/file-20210416-13-n5nimm.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=754&h=434&fit=crop&dpr=1 754w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/395516/original/file-20210416-13-n5nimm.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=30&auto=format&w=754&h=434&fit=crop&dpr=2 1508w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/395516/original/file-20210416-13-n5nimm.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=15&auto=format&w=754&h=434&fit=crop&dpr=3 2262w" sizes="(min-width: 1466px) 754px, (max-width: 599px) 100vw, (min-width: 600px) 600px, 237px"></a>
<figcaption>
<span class="caption">Damouth’s law connects body mass to population density.</span>
<span class="attribution"><span class="source">Sara Volz</span>, <a class="license" href="http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nd/4.0/">CC BY-ND</a></span>
</figcaption>
</figure>
<p>In ecology, there is a well-established relationship between body mass and population density called <a href="https://doi.org/10.1038/290699a0">Damuth’s law</a>. Larger animals need more space to survive – one square mile of grassland can support a lot more bunnies than elephants. This relationship is also dependent on metabolism – animals that burn more energy require more space.</p>
<p>Paleontologists have come up with a range of good <a href="https://doi.org/10.1111/brv.12638">estimates of <em>T. rex</em>’s body mass</a> and have also estimated <a href="https://doi.org/10.1073/pnas.0904000106">its metabolism</a> – slower than mammals but somewhat faster than a large modern lizard, the Komodo dragon. With Damuth’s law, we then estimated that the ancient world held about one <em>T. rex</em> every 42.4 square miles (109.9 square km). That’s about two individuals in the entire area of Washington, D.C.</p>
<p>Now we had all the pieces we needed. Multiplying the population density by the area in which <em>T. rex</em> lived gives us an estimate of 20,000 individuals per generation.</p>
<figure class="align-center zoomable">
<a href="https://images.theconversation.com/files/395198/original/file-20210415-17-2ziwwa.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=1000&fit=clip"><img alt="Thousands of drawn T. rex showing only a small number turning into fossils." src="https://images.theconversation.com/files/395198/original/file-20210415-17-2ziwwa.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=754&fit=clip" srcset="https://images.theconversation.com/files/395198/original/file-20210415-17-2ziwwa.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=600&h=400&fit=crop&dpr=1 600w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/395198/original/file-20210415-17-2ziwwa.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=30&auto=format&w=600&h=400&fit=crop&dpr=2 1200w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/395198/original/file-20210415-17-2ziwwa.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=15&auto=format&w=600&h=400&fit=crop&dpr=3 1800w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/395198/original/file-20210415-17-2ziwwa.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=754&h=503&fit=crop&dpr=1 754w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/395198/original/file-20210415-17-2ziwwa.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=30&auto=format&w=754&h=503&fit=crop&dpr=2 1508w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/395198/original/file-20210415-17-2ziwwa.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=15&auto=format&w=754&h=503&fit=crop&dpr=3 2262w" sizes="(min-width: 1466px) 754px, (max-width: 599px) 100vw, (min-width: 600px) 600px, 237px"></a>
<figcaption>
<span class="caption">Knowing the total number of <em>T. rex</em> that ever lived unlocks other pieces of knowledge – like the fraction that turn into fossils and were found.</span>
<span class="attribution"><span class="source">Franz Anthony</span>, <a class="license" href="http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nd/4.0/">CC BY-ND</a></span>
</figcaption>
</figure>
<h2>Why it matters</h2>
<p>Once we figured out the average population size, we were able to calculate the fossilization rate for <em>T. rex</em> – the chance that a single skeleton would survive to be discovered by humans 66 million years later. The answer: about 1 in 80 million. That is, for every 80 million adult <em>T. rex</em>, there is only one clearly identifiable specimen in a museum. </p>
<p>This number highlights how <a href="https://doi.org/10.1038/35000558">incomplete the fossil record is</a> and allows researchers to ask how rare a species could be without disappearing entirely from the fossil record.</p>
<p>Beyond calculating the <em>T. rex</em> fossilization rate, our new method could be used to calculate population size for other extinct species.</p>
<h2>What still isn’t known</h2>
<p>Estimates about extinct animals always include some amount of uncertainty. Our estimate of <em>T. rex</em> population density ranges from one individual for every 2.7 square miles (7 square km) to one for every 665.7 square miles (1,724 square km). But surprisingly, the largest source of this uncertainty comes from Damuth’s law. There is a lot of variation in modern animals. For example, Arctic foxes and Tasmanian devils have similar body mass, but devils have six times the population density.</p>
<p>Further study of living animals could tighten up our estimates on <em>T. rex</em>.</p>
<p>We also don’t know fossilization rates of other long extinct dinosaurs. If we have many fossils of one species, does that mean they were more common than <em>T. rex</em>, or do we simply recover their fossils more often? </p>
<figure class="align-center zoomable">
<a href="https://images.theconversation.com/files/395500/original/file-20210416-19-jbcpr5.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=1000&fit=clip"><img alt="A skeleton of T. rex." src="https://images.theconversation.com/files/395500/original/file-20210416-19-jbcpr5.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=754&fit=clip" srcset="https://images.theconversation.com/files/395500/original/file-20210416-19-jbcpr5.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=600&h=401&fit=crop&dpr=1 600w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/395500/original/file-20210416-19-jbcpr5.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=30&auto=format&w=600&h=401&fit=crop&dpr=2 1200w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/395500/original/file-20210416-19-jbcpr5.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=15&auto=format&w=600&h=401&fit=crop&dpr=3 1800w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/395500/original/file-20210416-19-jbcpr5.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=754&h=503&fit=crop&dpr=1 754w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/395500/original/file-20210416-19-jbcpr5.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=30&auto=format&w=754&h=503&fit=crop&dpr=2 1508w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/395500/original/file-20210416-19-jbcpr5.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=15&auto=format&w=754&h=503&fit=crop&dpr=3 2262w" sizes="(min-width: 1466px) 754px, (max-width: 599px) 100vw, (min-width: 600px) 600px, 237px"></a>
<figcaption>
<span class="caption">The huge amount of research that has been done on <em>T. rex</em> played an important role in making this calculation.</span>
<span class="attribution"><a class="source" href="https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:FMNH_SUE_Trex.jpg#/media/File:FMNH_SUE_Trex.jpg">Evolutionnumber9/Wikimedia Commons</a>, <a class="license" href="http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/">CC BY-SA</a></span>
</figcaption>
</figure>
<h2>What’s next</h2>
<p>This study might lead to other hidden facts about <em>T. rex</em> biology and ecology. </p>
<p>For instance, we might be able to learn whether <em>T. rex</em> populations fluctuated up and down with <em>Triceratops</em> – similar to <a href="https://isleroyalewolf.org/data/data/home.html">wolf and moose predator and prey relationships today</a>. However, most other dinosaurs <a href="https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pone.0016574">do not yet have the incredibly rich data</a> from decades of careful fieldwork that allowed our team to tally up <em>T. rex</em>. </p>
<p>If scientists want to apply this powerful technique to other extinct animals, we’ve got some more digging to do.</p>
<iframe src="https://embed.acast.com/60087127b9687759d637bade/60781590fbe1eb33d652507a?cover=true&ga=false" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay" width="100%" height="110"></iframe>
<p><em><a href="https://theconversation.com/dinosaurs-from-giant-reptiles-to-warm-blooded-feathered-creatures-how-our-understanding-of-what-they-looked-like-has-changed-podcast-158905">The Conversation Weekly podcast</a> digs into new research shedding light on the real size and feathery appearance of dinosaurs.</em></p><img src="https://counter.theconversation.com/content/159041/count.gif" alt="The Conversation" width="1" height="1" />
<p class="fine-print"><em><span>The authors do not work for, consult, own shares in or receive funding from any company or organization that would benefit from this article, and have disclosed no relevant affiliations beyond their academic appointment.</span></em></p>Using the incredible wealth of fossil data and a modern ecological theory, researchers estimated population density for the extinct apex predator.Ashley Poust, Research Associate in Paleontology, University of California, BerkeleyDaniel Varajão de Latorre, Ph.D. Student in Paleontology, University of California, BerkeleyLicensed as Creative Commons – attribution, no derivatives.tag:theconversation.com,2011:article/1257922019-11-18T14:03:49Z2019-11-18T14:03:49ZDid bees live in the time of dinosaurs?<figure><img src="https://images.theconversation.com/files/300356/original/file-20191105-88399-1uji6cf.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=496&fit=clip" /><figcaption><span class="caption">A fossilized bee in amber.</span> <span class="attribution"><a class="source" href="http://www.fossilmuseum.net/Fossil_Galleries/Insect_Galleries_by_Order/Hymenoptera/bee/bee_Fossil_in_amber.htm">Fossilmuseum.net</a>, <a class="license" href="http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/">CC BY-NC</a></span></figcaption></figure><figure class="align-left ">
<img alt="" src="https://images.theconversation.com/files/281719/original/file-20190628-76743-26slbc.png?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=237&fit=clip" srcset="https://images.theconversation.com/files/281719/original/file-20190628-76743-26slbc.png?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=600&h=293&fit=crop&dpr=1 600w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/281719/original/file-20190628-76743-26slbc.png?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=30&auto=format&w=600&h=293&fit=crop&dpr=2 1200w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/281719/original/file-20190628-76743-26slbc.png?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=15&auto=format&w=600&h=293&fit=crop&dpr=3 1800w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/281719/original/file-20190628-76743-26slbc.png?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=754&h=368&fit=crop&dpr=1 754w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/281719/original/file-20190628-76743-26slbc.png?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=30&auto=format&w=754&h=368&fit=crop&dpr=2 1508w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/281719/original/file-20190628-76743-26slbc.png?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=15&auto=format&w=754&h=368&fit=crop&dpr=3 2262w" sizes="(min-width: 1466px) 754px, (max-width: 599px) 100vw, (min-width: 600px) 600px, 237px">
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<p><em><a href="https://theconversation.com/us/topics/curious-kids-us-74795">Curious Kids</a> is a series for children of all ages. If you have a question you’d like an expert to answer, send it to <a href="mailto:curiouskidsus@theconversation.com">CuriousKidsUS@theconversation.com</a>.</em></p>
<hr>
<blockquote>
<p><strong>Did bees and dinosaurs live at the same time? – Gabriel H., 7, Providence, Rhode Island</strong></p>
</blockquote>
<hr>
<p>Yes, and in fact they shared the planet for millions of years before a <a href="https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/dinosaur-killing-asteroid-impact-chicxulub-crater-timeline-destruction-180973075/">mass extinction wiped out dinosaurs</a>, but spared bees and many other living things.</p>
<p>How do we know that bees were around when dinosaurs still roamed the Earth? The main evidence comes from fossils – the mineralized remains of long-dead organisms. </p>
<p>A lot has to go right for a dead creature to become a fossil. It has to be quickly covered by sediment before a scavenger has a chance to eat it – and the sediment has to be just right to preserve the details of its body. Then, millions of years later, that same sediment, now rock, has to become exposed through erosion so that people can find it and study it. When things go right, even a single fossil specimen can reveal a great deal.</p>
<p>Extinct animal species, known only from fossils, often look very different from creatures alive today. But scientists can almost always identify which branch of the tree of life they belong to, and thereby identify how they are related. The dinosaurs – <em>T. rex, Velociraptor, Triceratops</em> and the rest – seem almost fantastically weird, but their fossilized skeletons enable us to recognize them as reptiles.</p>
<p>The same is true for insects. Scientists can identify something as a bee by its distinctive features, such as the structure of its antennae, the shapes of its major body parts, and the pattern of veins in its wings. </p>
<p>Using these features, scientists have identified fossils of dozens of species of extinct bees. Some look like modern bees; others look quite different but are still recognizable as bees. </p>
<p>The oldest fossil bees look a lot like wasps. In fact, bees are thought to be a branch of the wasp family tree that <a href="https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-beguiling-history-of-bees-excerpt/">evolved a vegetarian lifestyle</a>, getting food from flowers instead of eating other insects. </p>
<p>The most exquisitely preserved fossil bees have been found in amber, which is fossilized plant sap. Perhaps these bees became trapped in sap while trying to collect it for constructing their nests – something many bees do today.</p>
<p>But how do we know how old any of these fossils are? It turns out the rocks that encase them have a built-in clock that reveals their age. The most common “radiometric clock” relies upon the decay of uranium into lead. </p>
<p>By knowing how much uranium and lead were present when the mineral rock was formed, how much is present now, and how fast this decay happens, we can reliably estimate the age of many ancient rocks, which tells us how long ago fossilized organisms lived.</p>
<p>The earliest dinosaurs appeared on earth around <a href="https://www.nhm.ac.uk/discover/when-did-dinosaurs-live.html">245 million years ago</a>, and dinosaurs were last seen when an asteroid hit the earth around <a href="https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/dinosaur-killing-asteroid-impact-chicxulub-crater-timeline-destruction-180973075/">65 million years ago</a>. The oldest <a href="https://science.sciencemag.org/content/314/5799/614.abstract">fossil bees date from about 100 million years ago</a>, which means bees and dinosaurs lived together for at least 35 million years, and possibly much longer.</p>
<p>Did a dinosaur ever get stung chomping into a plant where bees were nesting or collecting nectar and pollen? We can’t know for sure, but fossils tell us it is very possible.</p>
<hr>
<p><em>Hello, curious kids! Do you have a question you’d like an expert to answer? Ask an adult to send your question to <a href="mailto:curiouskidsus@theconversation.com">CuriousKidsUS@theconversation.com</a>. Please tell us your name, age and the city where you live.</em></p>
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<p class="fine-print"><em><span>Fred Dyer receives funding from the National Science Foundation, through the NSF-funded BEACON Center for the Study of Evolution at Michigan State University.</span></em></p>How do we know that bees were around when dinosaurs still roamed the Earth? The main evidence comes from fossils – the mineralized remains of long-dead organisms.Fred Dyer, Professor of Integrative Biology, Michigan State UniversityLicensed as Creative Commons – attribution, no derivatives.tag:theconversation.com,2011:article/896152018-01-05T16:00:35Z2018-01-05T16:00:35ZWhy I jumped at the chance to bring the real T. rex to life for TV<figure><img src="https://images.theconversation.com/files/200952/original/file-20180105-26154-1wiqvem.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=496&fit=clip" /><figcaption><span class="caption">
</span> <span class="attribution"><span class="source">BBC/Dom Walter, Tailsmith productions</span></span></figcaption></figure><p>The chance to work on a major documentary is always a testing experience for a researcher. It’s a huge opportunity to communicate cutting edge research to the public, but the way the information is presented can lack nuance and detail. This is especially true for dinosaur documentaries that are inevitably watched by young children and have to counter a huge range of myths that have built up in the popular imagination. Trying to educate, inform and entertain the audience all at once is a huge challenge.</p>
<p>Yet when I was invited to become a consultant for <a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b09ksl99">The real <em>T. rex</em> with Chris Packham</a>, I knew it was an opportunity not to be missed. <em>Tyrannosaurus rex</em> is not only the king of the dinosaurs but arguably the most famous animal we only know from fossils. A TV show on this species is an excellent opportunity for outreach and to try to steer conversations away from things like the endlessly recycled, and long ago settled, question of whether <em>T. rex</em> was a <a href="http://www.pnas.org/content/110/31/12560.short">predator</a> or a <a href="http://www.bioone.org/doi/abs/10.4202/app.2009.0133">scavenger</a> (the answer to this is incidentally, both).</p>
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<p>Here I must briefly mention Jurassic Park, even though I’d love not to. When the original film came out in 1993 it did more for getting across then current scientific thinking on dinosaurs than almost anything else ever could. Gone was the image of tail-dragging, upright, lumbering, swamp-dwellers and in came fast, active, and perhaps even intelligent, animals. </p>
<p>This dragged the public image of dinosaurs out of the 1960s and into the 1990s. Unfortunately, another 25 years later the science has moved on again but people’s impressions have not. The challenge is not just to introduce new ideas but overturn old ones.</p>
<h2>Latest research</h2>
<p>In the case of <em>T. rex</em> , we have learned a huge amount in the last 25 years and it has even become something of a model organism for dinosaur researchers. We have new data on their <a href="http://www.bioone.org/doi/abs/10.1666/04044.1?journalCode=pbio">movement</a>, <a href="https://peerj.com/articles/885/">feeding habits</a>, <a href="http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ar.20983/full">brain and inner ears</a> and more. </p>
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<p>Many of these ideas come from studying incomplete and fragmentary fossils. And however solid the research, this is never going to make exciting viewing. So ideas need to be new, easy to communicate, and contain certain level of whizz-bang for the audience. Access to specimens, and even researchers, for filming can limit the options further.</p>
<p>One excellent example of this was the programme’s section on the tyrannosaur’s bite, with an on-screen comparison with a live alligator. This gave us an opportunity to show off the gator’s bite, which was fun for the audience. But it also meant we could explain or reference the unusual shape of tyrannosaur teeth, the size and shape of their heads, the attachment sites for the jaw muscles, and the evolutionary relationship between crocodilians and dinosaurs.</p>
<h2>Bringing fossils to life</h2>
<p>We also filmed (although it was sadly cut for time from the final show) was a <em>Triceratops</em> pelvis showing <a href="http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/02724634.1996.10011297?journalCode=ujvp20">bite marks from a Tyrannosaurus</a>. This allowed us to actually include trace fossils as well. So a single short section covered multiple areas of comparative anatomy, experimental palaeontology, evolution, and ichnology (the study of animal traces like footprints). These were all integrated to build up a single coherent picture of tyrannosaur behaviour, backed by multiple research papers and presented with a bit of flair and easy frame of reference (namely a big alligator).</p>
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<p>In contrast, we had real problems getting the animal’s appearance right because the speed of research outstripped the production. We know several types of tyrannosaur had feathers and researchers have reasonably assumed that <em>T. rex</em> did too. But during production <a href="http://rsbl.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/13/6/20170092">a new paper came out</a> describing some fossilised <em>T. rex</em> skin that showed scales. Although the paper’s authors explicitly didn’t rule out feathers on <em>T. rex</em>, the research obviously meant that we needed to change our initial approach of a near fully feathered dinosaur, to one with a sparser coat.</p>
<p>Documentaries are a great way to potentially reach a huge audience and really engage with the public. The filter of writers, directors, producers and presenters means key messages can go awry, and there will always be compromises and concessions to the practicalities of filming. But the rewards are massive. Just didn’t expect anyone but your family to notice your name in the credits.</p><img src="https://counter.theconversation.com/content/89615/count.gif" alt="The Conversation" width="1" height="1" />
<p class="fine-print"><em><span>David Hone worked as a consultant for The Real T rex with Chris Packham, made by Talesmith Limited for the BBC.</span></em></p>A consultant on Chris Packham’s latest dinosaur show about Tyrannosaurus Rex explains how they kept it entertaining but accurate.David Hone, Senior Lecturer in Zoology, Queen Mary University of LondonLicensed as Creative Commons – attribution, no derivatives.