tag:theconversation.com,2011:/us/topics/mikmaw-94788/articlesMi’kmaw – The Conversation2023-04-17T18:58:38Ztag:theconversation.com,2011:article/2023132023-04-17T18:58:38Z2023-04-17T18:58:38ZHow Two-Eyed Seeing, ‘Etuaptmumk,’ is changing outdoor play in early childhood education<figure><img src="https://images.theconversation.com/files/516866/original/file-20230322-18-ptbyr3.png?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&rect=66%2C107%2C1837%2C987&q=45&auto=format&w=496&fit=clip" /><figcaption><span class="caption">When we walk together in a good way, we learn to see the world from multiple perspectives. </span> <span class="attribution"><span class="source">(Walking Together/Emily Kewageshig/Annick Press)</span></span></figcaption></figure><p>A knowledge and research collective at Humber College has been working to create, teach and evaluate a new course in the early childhood education program, <a href="https://humber.ca/today/news/instead-taking-notes-students-new-humber-college-class-focus-feel-and-connection">Two-Eyed Land-Based Play and Co-Learning</a>.</p>
<p><em>Etuaptmumk</em> (eh-doo-ahp-duh-mumk) or <a href="http://www.integrativescience.ca/">Two-Eyed Seeing</a> is the gift of multiple perspectives in the <a href="https://novascotia.ca/news/release/?id=20220407003">Mi’kmaw language</a>. </p>
<p>We are Louise Zimanyi, professor and researcher of French-Canadian and Hungarian descent living as a guest in <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=voXySM-knRc">Tkaronto/Toronto</a>, Ont., <a href="https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/toronto-purchase-treaty-13">Treaty 13 territory</a>, and Mi’kmaw Elder Albert Marshall, Moose Clan from <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfDtxhsS31A">Eskasoni, Unama’ki</a>/Cape Breton, Nova Scotia, the territory of the Mi'kma'ki. </p>
<p>We are part of the Two-Eyed Land-Based Play and Co-Learning Knowledge and Research Collective and have been co-learning together since <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJcjf1nUckc2020">meeting in early 2020</a>. Co-learning means enhancing each other’s understandings and perspectives, by sharing your gifts through relationships and the exchange of stories.</p>
<p>Two-Eyed Seeing inspired the reimagining of Humber’s nature program for young children, and is the focus of Louise’s doctoral work. Exploring <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArYbcbl6Vr4">children’s outdoor play through Two-Eyed Seeing</a> led to
<a href="https://theconversation.com/ca/topics/decolonizing-education-95431">rethinking post-secondary</a> training for early childhood educators through this unique and timely course. </p>
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Read more:
<a href="https://theconversation.com/wonder-and-wisdom-in-a-childrens-forest-nature-program-106692">Wonder and wisdom in a children's forest nature program</a>
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<p>With support from the <a href="https://lawson.ca/our-work/outdoor-play/second-phase">Lawson Foundation</a>, we are contributing to advancing outdoor play practice and research in early learning and child care in Canada.</p>
<h2>Exchange of stories</h2>
<p>Two-Eyed Seeing research embraces both Indigenous and non-Indigenous research methods. It emphasizes “the exchange of stories, the foundation of any and all relationships,” in the words of Elder Marshall. How does Two-Eyed Seeing inform an early childhood program? A key approach and practice we have explored is “walking together.”</p>
<p>This is also the title of a new <a href="https://www.annickpress.com/Books/W/Walking-Together">children’s picture book we have written</a>, illustrated by Anishinaabe artist <a href="https://www.emily-kewageshig.com/">Emily Kewageshig</a>. The book is a result of developing meaningful and lasting relationships through sharing stories and the desire to create resources for children, families and educators. </p>
<figure class="align-center ">
<img alt="Cover image of a book showing people in silhouette standing on the back of a turtle." src="https://images.theconversation.com/files/520374/original/file-20230411-24-8pg16g.png?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=754&fit=clip" srcset="https://images.theconversation.com/files/520374/original/file-20230411-24-8pg16g.png?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=600&h=606&fit=crop&dpr=1 600w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/520374/original/file-20230411-24-8pg16g.png?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=30&auto=format&w=600&h=606&fit=crop&dpr=2 1200w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/520374/original/file-20230411-24-8pg16g.png?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=15&auto=format&w=600&h=606&fit=crop&dpr=3 1800w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/520374/original/file-20230411-24-8pg16g.png?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=754&h=761&fit=crop&dpr=1 754w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/520374/original/file-20230411-24-8pg16g.png?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=30&auto=format&w=754&h=761&fit=crop&dpr=2 1508w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/520374/original/file-20230411-24-8pg16g.png?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=15&auto=format&w=754&h=761&fit=crop&dpr=3 2262w" sizes="(min-width: 1466px) 754px, (max-width: 599px) 100vw, (min-width: 600px) 600px, 237px">
<figcaption>
<span class="caption">The book ‘Walking Together’ follows a group of young children connecting to Land as their teacher throughout the seasons.</span>
<span class="attribution"><span class="source">(Walking Together/Marshall, Zimanyi, Kewageshig)</span></span>
</figcaption>
</figure>
<p><em>Walking Together</em> offers guidance on nurturing respectful and reciprocal relationships. We learn the <a href="https://www.un.org/development/desa/indigenouspeoples/indigenous-languages.html">languages of the Land</a>: the Land takes care of us when we take care of her.</p>
<p>Through reconnecting to and with the Land, <a href="https://www.edcan.ca/articles/the-best-of-both-worlds/">Two-Eyed Seeing</a> is about learning to see from one eye with the strengths of Indigenous knowledges and ways of knowing and from the other eye with the strengths of non-Indigenous knowledges and ways of knowing. Learning to use both eyes together for the <a href="https://lnuey.ca/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/CONCEPTS-FactSheet_2021.pdf">benefit of all</a> prioritizes our eco-kin, and restores balance between natural and human worlds.</p>
<h2>Co-learning with the Land</h2>
<p>The course at Humber is located on and shaped by the <a href="https://humber.ca/indigenous/landacknowledgement">traditional and treaty lands of the Mississaugas of the Credit</a> and Indigenous and non-Indigenous faculty who co-teach the course. The course is supported by local and regional Indigenous Elders, Knowledge Holders, mentors and storytellers.</p>
<p>All who participate in the course co-learn together as they connect or reconnect to and with <a href="https://humber.ca/arboretum/explore/ecosystems.html">nature’s ecosystems</a> through Land-based experiences, storytelling, inter-generational teachings and reflection in all seasons and weather.</p>
<p>Two-Eyed Seeing and walking together is inspired by the wisdom of the late Mi’kmaw Spiritual Leader and Healer Chief, Charles Labrador, of Acadia First Nation, Nova Scotia, who said:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>“Go into the forest, you see the Birch, Maple, Pine. Look underground and all those <a href="http://www.integrativescience.ca/Principles/TreesHoldingHands/">trees are holding hands</a>. We as people must do the same.”</p>
</blockquote>
<figure class="align-center zoomable">
<a href="https://images.theconversation.com/files/519913/original/file-20230406-16-vhpbpl.png?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=1000&fit=clip"><img alt="Illustration shows children standing in a forest holding hands." src="https://images.theconversation.com/files/519913/original/file-20230406-16-vhpbpl.png?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=754&fit=clip" srcset="https://images.theconversation.com/files/519913/original/file-20230406-16-vhpbpl.png?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=600&h=303&fit=crop&dpr=1 600w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/519913/original/file-20230406-16-vhpbpl.png?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=30&auto=format&w=600&h=303&fit=crop&dpr=2 1200w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/519913/original/file-20230406-16-vhpbpl.png?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=15&auto=format&w=600&h=303&fit=crop&dpr=3 1800w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/519913/original/file-20230406-16-vhpbpl.png?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=754&h=381&fit=crop&dpr=1 754w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/519913/original/file-20230406-16-vhpbpl.png?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=30&auto=format&w=754&h=381&fit=crop&dpr=2 1508w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/519913/original/file-20230406-16-vhpbpl.png?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=15&auto=format&w=754&h=381&fit=crop&dpr=3 2262w" sizes="(min-width: 1466px) 754px, (max-width: 599px) 100vw, (min-width: 600px) 600px, 237px"></a>
<figcaption>
<span class="caption">When we walk on the Land in a good way, we are all connected.</span>
<span class="attribution"><span class="source">(Walking Together/Marshall, Zimanyi, Kewageshig)</span></span>
</figcaption>
</figure>
<h2>Transforming early childhood education</h2>
<p>In early childhood education, walking together builds on the <a href="https://jipe.ca/index.php/jipe/article/view/130/59">benefits of outdoor and nature-based play</a> that <a href="https://www.child-encyclopedia.com/outdoor-play#">supports children’s emotional, intellectual and physical development</a> through exploration and inquiry. </p>
<p>Walking together engages spirit, heart, mind and body together. </p>
<p>When we walk together in a good way, Frog, Stick, Water and Rock are our teachers. We learn about their gifts through our two eyes. Across <a href="https://www.annickpress.com/Books/T/Turtle-Island">Turtle Island</a>, the stories of animal and plants will be different depending on what <a href="https://native-land.ca/">Indigenous Lands</a> one is on. </p>
<figure class="align-center zoomable">
<a href="https://images.theconversation.com/files/519914/original/file-20230406-694-jbn5ex.png?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=1000&fit=clip"><img alt="Image of woman with long braided hair that travels across space and touches a frog." src="https://images.theconversation.com/files/519914/original/file-20230406-694-jbn5ex.png?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=754&fit=clip" srcset="https://images.theconversation.com/files/519914/original/file-20230406-694-jbn5ex.png?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=600&h=302&fit=crop&dpr=1 600w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/519914/original/file-20230406-694-jbn5ex.png?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=30&auto=format&w=600&h=302&fit=crop&dpr=2 1200w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/519914/original/file-20230406-694-jbn5ex.png?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=15&auto=format&w=600&h=302&fit=crop&dpr=3 1800w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/519914/original/file-20230406-694-jbn5ex.png?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=754&h=380&fit=crop&dpr=1 754w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/519914/original/file-20230406-694-jbn5ex.png?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=30&auto=format&w=754&h=380&fit=crop&dpr=2 1508w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/519914/original/file-20230406-694-jbn5ex.png?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=15&auto=format&w=754&h=380&fit=crop&dpr=3 2262w" sizes="(min-width: 1466px) 754px, (max-width: 599px) 100vw, (min-width: 600px) 600px, 237px"></a>
<figcaption>
<span class="caption">We all have collective responsibilities to protect the Earth as good ancestors.</span>
<span class="attribution"><span class="source">(Walking Together / Marshall, Zimanyi, Kewageshig)</span></span>
</figcaption>
</figure>
<p>In understanding that <a href="http://www.harmonywithnatureun.org/">nature has rights</a>, and we all have collective responsibilities to protect the Earth as good ancestors, the practice of walking together demonstrates that <a href="https://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/aeceo/pages/2524/attachments/original/1595879343/eceLINK_Summer_2020_i_speak_frog.pdf?1595879343">different ways of knowing</a> can co-exist together peacefully. </p>
<p><a href="https://yellowheadinstitute.org/2021/03/17/creating-ethical-spaces-opportunities-to-connect-with-land-for-life-and-learning-in-the-nwt/">Co-learning relationships</a> are essential to <a href="https://doi.org/10.1177/2043610617703833">rethinking</a> and <a href="https://www.child-encyclopedia.com/outdoor-play/according-experts/indigenizing-outdoor-play">transforming early childhood education practice</a> in response to the <a href="https://www.cbc.ca/news/indigenous/beyond-94-truth-and-reconciliation-1.4574765">Truth and Reconciliation Calls to Action</a> and <a href="https://www.indigenouswatchdog.org/cta/call-to-action-12/">Call to Action No. 12</a>. </p>
<h2>Seeing from another’s perspective</h2>
<p>Two-Eyed Seeing helps us to know the environment through human eyes while also seeing things from another’s perspective. With this braided knowledge, we are enriched and transformed. </p>
<p>We then bear a responsibility to share what we learn and act for the <a href="https://climateatlas.ca/indigenous/first-nations">benefit of all</a>, now and for seven generations ahead.</p>
<h2>Responsibilities to all beings</h2>
<p>The first phase of the <a href="https://humber.ca/today/news/humber-professor-and-mi-kmaw-elder-co-author-new-children-s-book">research at Humber</a> has been supported by a faculty team, <a href="http://www.indigagogy.com/">Maamaawisiiwin Education Research Centre</a> and <a href="https://humber.ca/research/sotl">Humber’s Office of Research and Innovation, Scholarly Teaching and Learning</a>.</p>
<p>Initial findings demonstrate that <a href="https://humber.ca/indigenous/indigenous-education-plan">co-teaching and co-learning engages spirit, heart, mind and body for all learners</a>. </p>
<p>As storytellers, <a href="https://www.universityaffairs.ca/features/feature-article/dont-just-publish-another-paper-lets-do-something-says-scholar-advocate-cindy-blackstock/">advocates</a>, writers and artists, we are using our gifts to enact our own and collective responsibilities to all beings. </p>
<p>Like the flossy milkweed flower seeds that are carried on autumn winds for future generations of <a href="https://wwf.ca/species/monarch-butterfly/">monarch butterflies</a>, these seeds of knowledge can guide, regenerate and transform early childhood education practice for the <a href="https://theconversation.com/cop15s-global-biodiversity-framework-must-advance-indigenous-led-conservation-to-halt-biodiversity-loss-by-2030-195188">benefit of all</a>. This is an approach that has global relevance for protecting <a href="https://theconversation.com/weaving-indigenous-and-western-ways-of-knowing-can-help-canada-achieve-its-biodiversity-goals-201063">biodiversity</a>, climate action and resilience.</p>
<p>When we walk together in a good way, we learn to know the world through two eyes.</p>
<p><em>Wela'lioq</em>, Thank you.</p><img src="https://counter.theconversation.com/content/202313/count.gif" alt="The Conversation" width="1" height="1" />
<p class="fine-print"><em><span>The authors do not work for, consult, own shares in or receive funding from any company or organisation that would benefit from this article, and have disclosed no relevant affiliations beyond their academic appointment.</span></em></p>‘Etuaptmumk’ or Two-Eyed Seeing is the gift of multiple perspectives in the Mi’kmaw language. A key practice of this in an early childhood outdoor program is walking together and sharing stories.Louise Zimanyi, PhD Candidate, Social Sciences, Royal Roads UniversityAlbert D. Marshall, Elder and research partnerLicensed as Creative Commons – attribution, no derivatives.tag:theconversation.com,2011:article/1566332021-03-10T17:52:50Z2021-03-10T17:52:50ZIndigenous land defenders: Don’t Call Me Resilient EP 6 transcript<figure><img src="https://images.theconversation.com/files/388636/original/file-20210309-23-yyelqg.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&rect=67%2C6%2C4425%2C2997&q=45&auto=format&w=496&fit=clip" /><figcaption><span class="caption">Supporters of the Wet'suwet'en hereditary chiefs who oppose the Coastal GasLink pipeline set up a support station at kilometre 39, just outside of Gidimt'en checkpoint near Houston B.C., on January 8, 2020. The Wet'suwet'en peoples are occupying their land and trying to prevent a pipeline from going through it. </span> <span class="attribution"><span class="source">THE CANADIAN PRESS/Jason Franson</span></span></figcaption></figure><iframe height="200px" width="100%" frameborder="no" scrolling="no" seamless="" src="https://player.simplecast.com/65e610f9-842e-4091-b314-c985dc941f17?dark=true"></iframe>
<p><iframe id="tc-infographic-572" class="tc-infographic" height="100" src="https://cdn.theconversation.com/infographics/572/661898416fdc21fc4fdef6a5379efd7cac19d9d5/site/index.html" width="100%" style="border: none" frameborder="0"></iframe></p>
<p><a href="https://theconversation.com/indigenous-land-defenders-dont-call-me-resilient-ep-6-156632">Episode 6: Indigenous land defenders</a>.</p>
<p><em>NOTE: Transcripts may contain errors. Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.</em></p>
<p><strong>Vinita Srivastava:</strong> From <em>The Conversation</em>, this is “Don’t Call Me Resilient.” I’m Vinita Srivastava. </p>
<p><strong>Anne Spice:</strong> For me, I think the land defender is not a title that you claim for yourself. It’s an action. And it’s about the practice of actually being on the land and reclaiming ancestral territories and territories that are under attack. </p>
<p><strong>VS:</strong> In this episode, we take a look at Indigenous land rights and the people on the front lines of these battles. These are the land defenders fighting to protect land against invasive development. Both my guests today have stood up to armed forces to protect land. Their work to defend land is about protecting the environment, but it is much more than that. It is fundamentally about survival and the right to live openly on what is stolen land. Ellen Gabriel has been resisting land encroachment for 31 years. She was at the centre of the 1990 Kanehsatake resistance. You might know it as the Oka Crisis. It was a 78-day stand-off to protect ancestral Kanien’kéha:ka land or Mohawk land, in Québec. It was a moment in history that many say helped wake them up to Indigenous issues. Anne Spice is also with me today. She is a professor of geography and history at Ryerson University. Anne who is Tlingit from Kwanlin Dun First Nation was recently on the front lines in the defence of Wet'suwet'en Land. After she was arrested on Wet'suwet'en territory last year, a viral video showed the RCMP pointing a gun at the land defenders. In the video Anne can be heard shouting “we are unarmed and we are peaceful.” These are the moments that capture our collective attention. But Ellen and Anne’s work goes well beyond what the cameras show. I’m honoured they could both join me today to explain what it’s like to be on the ground, day in and day out, why they do what they do and how someone might join in the land back fight. </p>
<p><strong>VS:</strong> Are you guys ready to jump in? </p>
<p><strong>Ellen Gabriel:</strong> Sure. Just give us direction. </p>
<p><strong>VS:</strong> Ellen, during the 1990 Kanehsatake resistance the Canadian government sent 2,000 police and over 4,000 soldiers, along with armoured vehicles and helicopters, to subdue your communities. So, I know it’s complicated, but for those that are unfamiliar with the issues, what were you fighting for? What are you still fighting for? </p>
<p><strong>EG:</strong> It’s always been about land since Europeans have come here. It’s about land. It’s dispossession and Indigenous people being criminalized for standing up for what is their right, which is to protect the people and the land. So being at the front line, as you call it, it’s not an easy thing. You have to have a will of steel. You know, you have to teach yourself to remain calm and not go for the provocation of whoever is up against you, which is really difficult because, as you know, I’ve been doing this for what’s going on 31 years now. And you get tired, you get frustrated. And the fact that the government who created the problem is just sitting back and not doing anything and just waiting for a violent confrontation to justify the use of force and to devalue and discredit and silence our voices is extremely maddening. You know, where we don’t own the land, the land owns us. We are her people. And I think that’s why we do this, is that people understand their ancestral teachings, is that we need to protect the land for this generation and for future generations. </p>
<p><strong>VS:</strong> I watched the Obomsawin documentary again the other day, and I heard you say that, you know, as the trucks rolled in and the SWAT team came out, that you were with three women and you just sort of looked at each other and your instincts kicked in and you said something about being a woman and your role. </p>
<p><strong>EG:</strong> The women are title holders to the land and the protectors of the land. And the men’s obligation is to protect the women who are protecting the land. Title to the land goes through us and we have not been respected as we see in the Indian Act, attacked the authority in the roles of women. So it’s a huge obligation because we need to fight a government that has infinite amount of resources, both financial and human. And so you need to be strong. And what you know is your obligation and why there is such an importance to it, which is without the land we’re nothing. Without the land we don’t have a language. We don’t have a culture. We cease to be ronkwe people. Ronkwe people is all Indigenous people. That’s our word — Kanien’kéha word - we are People of the Flint — Kanien’kéha:ka, so there’s not a day that goes by that I don’t think about that and how it’s a very scary thing to be in the front. You get attacked from within and you get attacked on the outside. So you really have to be strong in your beliefs. And if you falter just a little bit, it can be detrimental to your mental health because it is a very stressful thing to carry this this burden. I say it’s a burden because we should have been able to resolve this in 1990. But the government never negotiated in good faith. They had no intention of resolving this peacefully as they do now. It’s a new government. They seem to be really friendly, but they’re actually not. They’re just repackaging colonization to justify land dispossession, saying that we are willingly giving up our land and we never have willingly given up our land. You have to be really stubborn, which I think is in our DNA. So I’m proud to be a stubborn Kanien’kéha:ka woman in all this. </p>
<figure class="align-center ">
<img alt="" src="https://images.theconversation.com/files/388637/original/file-20210309-23-92ngj.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=754&fit=clip" srcset="https://images.theconversation.com/files/388637/original/file-20210309-23-92ngj.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=600&h=461&fit=crop&dpr=1 600w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/388637/original/file-20210309-23-92ngj.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=30&auto=format&w=600&h=461&fit=crop&dpr=2 1200w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/388637/original/file-20210309-23-92ngj.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=15&auto=format&w=600&h=461&fit=crop&dpr=3 1800w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/388637/original/file-20210309-23-92ngj.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=754&h=579&fit=crop&dpr=1 754w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/388637/original/file-20210309-23-92ngj.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=30&auto=format&w=754&h=579&fit=crop&dpr=2 1508w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/388637/original/file-20210309-23-92ngj.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=15&auto=format&w=754&h=579&fit=crop&dpr=3 2262w" sizes="(min-width: 1466px) 754px, (max-width: 599px) 100vw, (min-width: 600px) 600px, 237px">
<figcaption>
<span class="caption">Mohawk activist Ellen Gabriel about to speak to the media in the summer of 1990. She was chosen by the People of the Longhouse and her community of Kanehsatà:ke to be their spokesperson during the ‘Oka Crisis,’ a 78-day standoff to protect ancestral Kanien’kéha:ka (Mohawk) land in Québec.</span>
<span class="attribution"><span class="source">THE CANADIAN PRESS/staff</span></span>
</figcaption>
</figure>
<p><strong>VS:</strong> And you’ve been stubborn for, as you say, 31 years. I’m wondering, has anything improved? </p>
<p><strong>EG:</strong> Not for Kanehsata:ke. I think Kanehsata:ke has been punished over the last three decades. We have more land that has been taken from us by settlers and we are being silenced once again as we were in 1990 as traditional people. People who are following the original constitution and teachings of our ancestors that predate European arrival. When I look outside, yeah, I see a lot of improvements and a lot of changes. But even there, there’s still so much work to do on so many levels. And if we look at the Truth and Reconciliation Commission’s calls to action, there’s solutions in there which have to do with education because it’s a mindset, right? When you talk about peace for us, you have to have a good mind and that takes teachings. It takes education, which I think is absent from the educational system within Canada. And so it’s an uphill battle still for us. </p>
<p><strong>VS:</strong> Anne you’re also a lead defender, and also in your work you document land defenders. And I’m just going to take a moment to just to pause for a minute to ask what may be a basic question. But what is a land defender? Who are the land defenders? </p>
<p><strong>AS:</strong> For me, I think the land defender is not a title that you claim for yourself. It’s an action. And it’s about the practice of actually being on the land and reclaiming ancestral territories and territories that are under attack and insisting on a narrative that recognizes that these territories do not legitimately belong to the state, they don’t belong to Canada. When we talk about defence, it can seem like we’re just creating barriers from outside invasions. And some of the work is doing that because there are these really clear forms of invasion that are attempting to steal the land or steal the land again or repurpose it in ways that will damage it and damage our relations. It’s about protecting our relationships with the land and the water and the animals and upholding our responsibilities, which is part of what it means to be Indigenous Peoples. And it’s part of our teachings as Indigenous Peoples is to be holding those responsibilities and acting on them. And we’re consistently kept from being able to exercise those responsibilities by the state and by industry. And so our relatives are under attack in these spaces. And so part of our work is to protect them. And part of our work is to be able to deepen those responsibilities and those relationships in the face of this really violent industrial push onto Indigenous lands. </p>
<p><strong>VS:</strong> You’re also a scholar and you spend some of your time documenting, not only participating in these movements. Can you describe a little bit of what you have seen? </p>
<p><strong>AS:</strong> When I’m out on the territories or when I’m in spaces of siege, is just to listen to the people who are trying to defend their own territories and listen to their experiences. There’s a witness saying that’s important there. I don’t think it’s my role to tell other people’s stories for them. I think that part of this is trying to tease apart what it is exactly we’re up against, and that that’s the place where scholarship can really make an impact in trying to tease apart this really violent machine that continues to attack our people and attack our lands and to figure out exactly what it is that they are trying to do. And I think that part of the reason that’s really important is because we’re not on the same page as settler Canadians. And despite the way that the current government talks about reconciliation and their desire for reconciliation, we still have a basic disagreement about the disagreement. There’s a continued attempt to try and redefine the land that we’re standing on. And so where we see a fight for our futures and for future generations and a deep responsibility towards the land, they see a construction site and they see the future of energy futures for the Canadian public. And so as long as we are not on the same page about those definitions — like we’re fighting over that imagination about — we want to imagine future generations living on on the land and being able to feed themselves from the land and being able to drink the water because it’s not contaminated. And so I think part of the work of scholarship is to figure out what the desires are of the settler state and so that we can imagine different things and are imagining different things for ourselves and our people. And land defence is bringing those things into reality. </p>
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<p><strong>VS:</strong> This was a year in some ways of really understanding that, well, for many people, I think just publicly this was a year of anti-racist uprisings. For me, it really drove home the idea of life and death movements. This idea that land defence movements continued even throughout the lockdown. Ellen, you’ve said that you thought the presence of satellite TV in 1990 saved your lives. And Anne at one point in a live stream video that circulated about the Wet'suwet'en protests with the RCMP guns pointed at you, you could be heard in the video shouting that “we are unarmed, we are peaceful.” </p>
<p><strong>EG:</strong> It’s been a very useful tool because mainstream media does not pick up the stories in our communities. I should mention that the Atikamekw woman, Joyce Echaquan, she recorded her own death, which sparked outrage for Indigenous People, at least here in Québec, and the demonstrating to the public that here’s some evidence for you to show you live some of the realities that we are facing. It’s also a double-edged sword because sometimes those things are used against us. You know, we always have to be the perfect ones. We are the ones that are faced with: we have to behave, we have to have peaceful resistance. So it’s a useful tool in that in having the world witnessed what probably was a worse experience for our ancestors. I think we are very privileged in this day and age, no matter where we are, to be able to have access to these. Because I am tired of people stealing the narrative. I am tired of people thinking that 1990 was about 60 warriors with weapons when there was a lot of people behind the lines who were not armed. I was never armed. And you know, it was difficult to show the facts. The police taking meat out of the donations that were coming from Six Nations and other communities and letting it sit in the sun. Our elders who went for chemotherapy and were forced to stand in the sun for two hours or four hours, people being strip searched, men being tortured by La Sûreté du Québec and the Canadian Army. So now we have the tools to show what is going on. And I think this is waking up people in a different sense. People act as if we have a choice to whether be on the front lines or not. No, we don’t, because if we do nothing it condones acts of aggression against our people. </p>
<p><strong>VS:</strong> Anne you’ve talked about technology as well. We’ve got something that’s faster and maybe more in the hands of the protester, of the defender. </p>
<p><strong>AS:</strong> I agree with Ellen that it is this kind of a double-edged sword. There’s a level of public awareness that would not be possible if we weren’t able to get the message out about what is happening and to get visuals out about what is happening without having to rely on mainstream media. And I think that, well I know that the RCMP and the state and industry view that as a threat to them. There are leaked reports that talk about the use of Twitter in the siege on Elsipogtog and they were very concerned about people’s ability to get that narrative out to the public without it being first filtered through mainstream media or through a state narrative. So I think that this can be really powerful and the ability to get these images out quickly in the siege on Wet'suwet'en really helped to spur the response and the acts of solidarity and action that were happening across the country and actually around the world. And so I think there’s something really powerful about that. Underlying that is that there are relationships, long-standing relationships between Indigenous nations that were the main strength of those solidarity actions came from those already underlying relationships. It wasn’t social media alone. It was social media layered on top of this already existing commitment to fight for each other and to not let other Indigenous nations be under attack without there being a powerful response. And I think this is something that we learned from the siege at Oka as well. That these solidarity responses are relationships that we’re building between each other. Those are really important. At the same time, there’s an element to social media that is is really frustrating to me. And that’s the need to present a spectacle in order to have people pay attention. Upwards of 70 tactical officers descended on a checkpoint with four people in order to get national attention on what was going on on Wet'suwet'en territory. Because, I mean, although that experience itself felt very violent and traumatizing, there is a daily violence that’s happening on that territory and many others where land defenders and supporters are being surveilled. There is constant police presence and police patrols. As Ellen said, you have to be the perfect person. If you slip up, they make you a criminal and that the constant presence of police and of industry and their ability to just continue to do work on territories where they have not received consent is a form of violence that I wish people cared about more because it’s killing people. It’s killing people in the present and in these often kind of imperceptible ways, people are going hungry because they can’t hunt on their territories. The contamination of the territories is causing rates of cancer in Indigenous communities that can only be explained by this colonial pressure to build and to continue to support industry, even when it’s having these effects on on Indigenous lives. </p>
<p><strong>VS:</strong> What does the day to day look like? That’s not visible to everybody? </p>
<p><strong>AS:</strong> I think a lot of the time, and in ideal circumstances, it just looks like Indigenous people living on the land and all of the things that are involved in attempting to rebuild communities that are centred on the land. And so when we’re not being constantly interrupted by police, which is a sort of a daily thing that’s happening, people are going out hunting and they’re cooking for each other and they’re hiking around the territory and learning about the different plants and animals that are there and passing that knowledge along. The goal is just to be able to live as Indigenous people that is constantly being interrupted and challenged by the settler state and by industry. So it’s really hard to go out hunting when they’re upwards of 100 industry trucks driving by on the roads that you used to be able to just drive along without seeing anyone or when every time you go out to go berry picking, you’re followed by police. It’s not particularly glamorous a lot of the time, I think that there’s this view of Indigenous warriors as being like the sort of glamorous thing happening out in the territory. A lot of the time it’s just daily life and a consistent resistance to attempts to interrupt and disrupt that daily life. </p>
<p><strong>EG:</strong> I want to honour what Anne has been talking about, because this is what happened to us for at least a decade after the 1990 crisis. The surveillance has never stopped. There are daily helicopters flying over. And we have a select group of people within the community who can do things with impunity. And this is part of the colonial project, the divide and conquer. So I’m just at a loss for words. You always have to have hope. I have hope that the younger generation will be much kinder and gentler to the Earth and that they will wake up because we’re talking about generations, multigenerational trauma. We’re talking about multigenerational trauma, not just from Indian residential school, but from from defending the land and defending who you are. And land defence is not a spectacle. It’s not a fad. It’s something that we do simply because we have to we don’t have a choice. I raise my hands to Anne and Wet'suwet'en people and all the land defenders. From the Mi'kmaw to the north, we’re living in the prophecy time. We’re living in a climate both politically and spiritually, which is changing and not necessarily for the best. So the people who have those teachings, we need to speak to them. We need to encourage them to speak out. We do not have the luxury of time anymore. The changes are coming. And the Earth doesn’t need us to survive as a species. And that’s one thing that I think the egos of humankind need to come down a notch and say we’re not the most important thing here. How many species have become extinct because of the activities of people? Yesterday, I was thinking about this so-called democracy, a democracy that’s based on more power and more rights to corporations for the rich get richer and the people need to stand up to push back. That’s not a democracy. That’s authoritarianism. We need to decolonize our minds and how we look at land defenders. We’re not just defending the communities in which we live in. We are defending the whole thing of what constitutes sovereignty. Our version of sovereignty, our own definition. Not the colonizers’ definition of sovereignty. </p>
<p><strong>VS:</strong> I think the thing that always has struck me is that we’re supposedly in this era of reconciliation. And I’ve heard, Ellen, you said that reconciliation has to be alive before we can call it dead. And many of the Wet'suwet'en land defenders have said reconciliation is dead. And are we in an era of reconciliation or are we not? </p>
<p><strong>EG:</strong> Not. </p>
<p><strong>AS:</strong> I think there’s a question about whether or not reconciliation is even the goal, you know? I think you’re right, Ellen. The easy answer is that we’re not. The government would love to believe that we’re there. But I think that, I mean, I’ve said this before as well. You could look at the Truth and Reconciliation Commission. We’re still arguing over truth. You kind of have this image of people sitting down at a table and hashing things out, but words aren’t going to solve the issues that we’re dealing with. I think there is like a full reaccounting of what Indigenous people have suffered as a piece of it. And the fact is that we’ve subsidized the existence of Canada, we’ve subsidized the Canadian economy, which continues to pull resources from Indigenous lands without benefit, with actually a lot of detriments to Indigenous Peoples. And so, I don’t think reconciliation quite captures what it is that’s necessary. And so if that’s the ceiling when it comes to what we’re seeking in terms of justice and liberation, I don’t think it does it in and of itself. So, yeah, I definitely hear that, it would need to be alive in order for it to be to be dead. </p>
<p><strong>VS:</strong> I hear you say words, words aren’t going to solve this. What do you think will help? </p>
<p><strong>AS:</strong> I think that there’s always been a burden on Indigenous people to tell the government what it is we want, as if we haven’t been clear for generations and generations that what we want is the land. What we want is the ability to live on the land. And as is clearly stated in the UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous People, the right to continued use and control over access to our lands. And that, that is one of the ways that we’re going to be fighting against this change in climate, all the environmental catastrophes that we’re facing. We’ve had to get pretty creative about how we do that while under colonial occupation. I think there’s a burden on settler Canadians and non-native people to take on some of that creative work and to try to imagine for themselves what it would mean to actually live in accordance with Indigenous law. I think that deepening relationships with Indigenous nations, if you’re living on someone else’s territory, then building a relationship with them is really important and continuing to kind of work into those relations and connections and to take up some of the responsibility that we’ve taken on for protecting the land. </p>
<p><strong>EG:</strong> One of the things that we’ve asked for is a moratorium on all development. And Minister Miller has said absolutely not. But a moratorium on development for us to at least to have a breather. You can be a short-term moratorium when we sit down and all the people understand what’s at stake. If we don’t do this, then this will happen. If we do do this, this is going to happen. That’s free prior and informed consent. And we’re not able to get even to that table. I think we need to educate people on the buzzwords that are used that repackage colonization so that there’s a better understanding of the games that are being played. They are playing games with our lives. So we are the dispensable people in Canada. Everybody talks about what a small percentage of the population in Canada. Yeah, at one point we were the majority and because of war and disease, a genocidal act happened and you killed off the majority of our people who had the knowledge and the language of understanding how to survive on this beautiful land. We’re not able to do that when there’s persistent land theft and it’s done under Canadian laws. They’re not including our perspective. They’re not respecting our rights. So it’s a very coercive and abrasive relationship, our relationship with Canada and all the buzzwords, the flowery speeches and all that. They don’t mean anything to me because there’s no actions behind those words. And until there is, I will continue to be a pessimist but a hopeful pessimist. </p>
<p><strong>VS:</strong> I was going to say, you don’t seem like a pessimist to me. You seem very hopeful in that you continue. So it seems to me like you are an optimist. </p>
<p><strong>EG:</strong> Yeah, I am. As an artist, you always have to try and find the beauty in life and maybe expressing yourself in a different way. You have to remain hopeful because there are children that depend on it. There’s another generation that depend on you, because it was it was a generation that I depended on to give me what I have today. So it is giving that back. </p>
<p><strong>VS:</strong> You’ve spent some time analyzing resistance techniques, but also you’ve looked at colonial structures so that you might find the path of least resistance or pathways forward. I’m wondering if you can share some of those findings with us. </p>
<p><strong>AS:</strong> That’s like a nicer way of putting it than I probably would. I would say that I’m looking for vulnerabilities in an enemy, really, and places where the system can be dismantled and there’s a possibility for that. Still, I really understand the play between pessimism and optimism. I think that there is hope in the way that we show up for each other. And as Ellen said, resistance there in 1990 spurred a decades-long attempt to punish people for resistance. And I think that it’s also really important for us to make sure we make it clear that that is not acceptable, that we’re not going to allow other people, especially land defenders, to be made an example of. And so I think part of it is that we can do some narrative work. In this way words do matter to push back against the criminalization of land defence and land defenders, and that’s one place where I see some space for moving forward. I think there’s really technical work to be done when it comes to dismantling particular bureaucratic forms of violence. I think that if you look at environmental assessment regulations, there’s things that are present in this structure that are oppressive by design. Structures and processes and forms of paperwork that are intended and built to fast track industrial projects. They don’t have Indigenous consent built in. So part of what might be necessary if we’re wanting to work with the government when it comes to, say, implementing UNDRIP is to try and figure out how to build Indigenous consent into these processes, because right now it’s not even there. And so it’s irrelevant. It’s irrelevant. If Indigenous people say no to a project, it doesn’t matter in their process at the end of the day. </p>
<p><strong>EG:</strong> That requires resources. And I agree with everything you’ve said Anne. The frustration is you need people who are policy analysts, human rights lawyers. You need a team almost 24 hours a day just to watch what is going on in order to fight it. We’re fighting a big machine of industries that have the resources. And so little land defenders like myself, we’re just out there trying to get the people to wake up and to get the public to be on our side. And it takes a long time. And sometimes we don’t have the time. Sometimes by the time we’re able to catch our breath, that piece of land is gone. So I’d like to have a satirical court process where we put them on trial and people understand what it is that we’re trying to do. </p>
<p><strong>AS:</strong> I think that we’re seeing some really hopeful engagement from Indigenous youth and there’s, I think, real power there. But sometimes I also worry that the intergenerational aspect of our organizing is not there or is not as strong as it could be. Or that maybe where we’re not looking to the people we should be looking to, to tell us about how you know, how this fight has has been ongoing and what it was like decades past, those stories aren’t always accessible for us. But I’m wondering what you think about the role of intergenerational work and storytelling in resistance movements, given that you’ve seen this through for the past 31 years? </p>
<p><strong>EG:</strong> Well, I think it’s really important for people to listen under our great law. Everybody is important. That doesn’t matter what your age or gender is. So I find the colonial view of let’s let the youth lead is kind of wrong. It should be youth who have listened to elders have sat down and learned just like any form of leadership, it has to come with knowledge. And some youth can be elders in their own right, depending on how they were raised. But equality means that all age groups are listened to, all age groups are respected and have an equal voice. It’s just like, well, we’ve seen so much male leadership. Let’s see some of the women’s leadership. So we have to create a balance between how many voices are the kind of voices that are heard. I learnt from so many people over the last 30 years and some were not Indigenous people. But the elders that I listened to were Indigenous elders from all over the Americas. And the similarities that we have in our belief system is sort of reinforcing that motivation to continue to do the work. So it’s really including everybody and teaching the children to listen, teaching the children that they’re important, that they’re loved. We have to look at it holistically in every way, shape or form our mental, physical and spiritual help that we need on a daily basis. </p>
<p><strong>VS:</strong> I wanted to ask you about the idea of the need for this ongoing strength. And the name of this podcast is “Don’t Call Me Resilient,” which challenges that idea of the state of asking people to remain or praising them for their resilience in all of these ongoing battles. I’m wondering what you think about that notion of resilience. </p>
<p><strong>AS:</strong> I don’t think that the word itself is the problem. There is no individual resilience. And if we view it in that way, then we’re where we’re going to be weaker. I think that we only exist in connection to others in this network of relations and this web of relations that we find ourselves. And if we are resilient, it’s only because we have those connections to lean on because we’re being held up by others, whether human or otherwise. And I think that sort of widens this idea of resilience. </p>
<p><strong>EG:</strong> Yeah, I wholeheartedly agree with Anne. I think it’s about strength. It’s about courage and how strongly you believe in what you’re doing. For me, I think one of the best ways to survive in all this is to feel the sun on my face and the wind, those beautiful summer winds, even the cold winter winds that make you feel alive. It’s all about feeling alive and being alive and what you do with that spirit that you were given when you’re born, that spirit that for now has a body but will be set free one day. And it’s really difficult to say. If you want to put a label on people who defend the land, then it can’t be resilient. It’s got to be something like courageous, compassionate people who whose spirit lives beyond this dimension. Because, like I said, I think we carry the spirit of our ancestors with us and and we’re never alone, no matter where we are. </p>
<p><strong>VS:</strong> Thank you both so much. That’s it for this episode of “Don’t Call Me Resilient.” Thanks for listening. If you want to continue the conversation on land defenders, find us on Twitter <a href="https://twitter.com/ConversationCA">@ConversationCA</a> and use the hashtag #DontCallMeResilient. If you’d like to read more about land defenders and land rights, go to the <a href="https://theconversation.com/ca">TheConversation.com</a>. That’s where you’ll find our <a href="https://theconversation.com/indigenous-land-defenders-dont-call-me-resilient-ep-6-156632">show notes</a> with links to stories and research connected to our conversation with Ellen Gabriel and Anne Spice. This is the end of season one for “Don’t Call Me Resilient.” If you like the podcast, please submit a review and share your experience and insights. </p>
<p><em>Don’t Call Me Resilient is a production of The Conversation Canada. This podcast was produced with a grant for Journalism Innovation from the Social Sciences and Humanities Research Council of Canada. The series is produced and hosted by me, Vinita Srivastava. Our producers are Nahid Buie, Latifa Abdin and Nehal El-Hadi with additional editorial help from our intern Ibrahim Daair. Reza Dahya is our technical producer and sound guru. Anowa Quarcoo is in charge of marketing and production design. Lisa Varano is our audience development editor and Scott White is the CEO of The Conversation Canada. Special thanks also to Jennifer Moroz for her indispensable help on this project. And if you’re wondering who wrote and performed the music we use on the pod, that’s the amazing Zaki Ibrahim. The track is called Something in the Water.</em> </p>
<p>Thanks for listening, everyone, and hope you join us again. Until next time. I am Vinita. And please don’t call me resilient.</p><img src="https://counter.theconversation.com/content/156633/count.gif" alt="The Conversation" width="1" height="1" />
Indigenous land defenders: Don’t Call Me Resilient EP 6 transcript.Vinita Srivastava, Host + Producer, Don't Call Me ResilientIbrahim Daair, Culture + Society EditorLicensed as Creative Commons – attribution, no derivatives.tag:theconversation.com,2011:article/1489782020-10-29T20:31:52Z2020-10-29T20:31:52ZConflict over Mi'kmaw lobster fishery reveals confusion over who makes the rules<figure><img src="https://images.theconversation.com/files/366509/original/file-20201029-19-1a4clhz.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&rect=44%2C17%2C2932%2C2160&q=45&auto=format&w=496&fit=clip" /><figcaption><span class="caption">Indigenous lobster boats head from the harbour in Saulnierville, N.S. on Oct. 21, 2020.</span> <span class="attribution"><span class="source">THE CANADIAN PRESS /Andrew Vaughan</span></span></figcaption></figure><p>In the past month, the <a href="http://sipeknekatik.ca">Sipekne’katik First Nation</a> and the <a href="https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/potlotek-first-nation-celebrates-treaty-day-launch-fishery-1.5746650">Potlotek First Nation</a> placed lobster traps in bays at the opposite ends of Nova Scotia. Each community had developed a management plan based on their treaty rights to earn a moderate livelihood. </p>
<p>The response to these actions by non-Indigenous fishers has led to national and international coverage of the ensuing violence, including <a href="https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/lobster-facility-nova-scotia-fire-1.5765665">damage to property and assault</a>. Both non-Indigenous fishers and the Fisheries Department (DFO) have since seized some of the lobster traps. </p>
<p>The conflict has largely centred on whether the lobster stock is threatened by out-of-season fishing, and the definition of a “moderate” livelihood. However, this focus misses the root of the Mi’kmaw livelihood issue, namely the question of who has the authority to govern livelihood activities and how it is done. </p>
<h2>Researching the issue</h2>
<p>We’re part of a small group that has been examining these very issues since 2014, and includes <a href="https://www.dal.ca/faculty/science/marine-affairs-program.html">scholars with expertise in ocean governance and marine policy</a> and colleagues from the Assembly of First Nations. Our research project, <a href="https://www.dal.ca/sites/fishwiks.html">Fish-WIKS</a>, aims to understand how Indigenous and western knowledge systems can be used to improve the sustainability of Canadian fisheries. </p>
<p>The processes that feed into decision-making in fisheries in Canada have been primarily influenced by western science‐based knowledge systems that focus on a reductionist approach to understanding problems. In contrast, Indigenous ways of knowing are based on world views and values that are integrative and holistic, or as Elder Albert Marshall of Eskasoni First Nation once spelled out, “wholistic.”</p>
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Read more:
<a href="https://theconversation.com/its-taken-thousands-of-years-but-western-science-is-finally-catching-up-to-traditional-knowledge-90291">It's taken thousands of years, but Western science is finally catching up to Traditional Knowledge</a>
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<p>Who would have guessed that our results from examining an alternative governance structure for the livelihood fishery in Nova Scotia through the lens of both knowledge systems, referred to as “two-eyed seeing,” would coincide with the current conflict playing out in the lobster fishery?</p>
<h2>Two-eyed seeing</h2>
<p>In two-eyed seeing, knowledge is viewed as a system that comprises what is known and how it is known. But a knowledge system, whether western or Indigenous, is composed of many things. </p>
<figure class="align-right zoomable">
<a href="https://images.theconversation.com/files/366456/original/file-20201029-13-1vrn1i6.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=1000&fit=clip"><img alt="" src="https://images.theconversation.com/files/366456/original/file-20201029-13-1vrn1i6.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=237&fit=clip" srcset="https://images.theconversation.com/files/366456/original/file-20201029-13-1vrn1i6.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=600&h=617&fit=crop&dpr=1 600w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/366456/original/file-20201029-13-1vrn1i6.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=30&auto=format&w=600&h=617&fit=crop&dpr=2 1200w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/366456/original/file-20201029-13-1vrn1i6.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=15&auto=format&w=600&h=617&fit=crop&dpr=3 1800w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/366456/original/file-20201029-13-1vrn1i6.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=754&h=775&fit=crop&dpr=1 754w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/366456/original/file-20201029-13-1vrn1i6.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=30&auto=format&w=754&h=775&fit=crop&dpr=2 1508w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/366456/original/file-20201029-13-1vrn1i6.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=15&auto=format&w=754&h=775&fit=crop&dpr=3 2262w" sizes="(min-width: 1466px) 754px, (max-width: 599px) 100vw, (min-width: 600px) 600px, 237px"></a>
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<span class="caption">Conceptual illustration of components of a knowledge system.</span>
<span class="attribution"><span class="source">(A. Giles, L. Fanning, S. Denny and T. Paul, 2016)</span></span>
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<p>What we know, how we practise our knowledge, how we adapt to it and how we transmit and share knowledge are the more familiar elements. But the values and beliefs that underpin these elements, and which actually distinguish one knowledge system from another, are often ignored. </p>
<p>This is a problem because the values and beliefs underpinning one system are often at odds with those of another system, potentially creating a barrier to collaboration. However, the Fish-WIKS projects showed there are similarities that can bridge these knowledge systems and lead to greater understanding of the differences. </p>
<h2>Governance gaps</h2>
<p>Our research identified a number of gaps in governance that have contributed to the lobster fishery situation we have today.</p>
<p>There is still no federal policy to address livelihood fisheries and the issue of livelihood as a treaty right is not mentioned in the <a href="https://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fisheries-peches/aboriginal-autochtones/afs-srapa-eng.html">Aboriginal Fisheries Strategy</a>, the primary policy guiding the federal response to Indigenous fisheries </p>
<p>There are also conflicting views on who has the authority to manage fisheries, which stem from the perceived legitimacy of each governing system. Legitimacy influences whether a political action is perceived as right or just by those who are involved, interested and/or affected by it.</p>
<p>The two sets of rules for fisheries arise from the protection of Aboriginal and treaty rights in sections 25 and 35 of the <a href="https://www.canlii.org/en/ca/laws/stat/schedule-b-to-the-canada-act-1982-uk-1982-c-11/latest/schedule-b-to-the-canada-act-1982-uk-1982-c-11.html">Constitution</a>, complicating the issue of legitimacy. This legal pluralism gives DFO the authority over non-Indigenous commercial fisheries while limiting its capacity to govern Indigenous fisheries. </p>
<figure class="align-center ">
<img alt="A man sitting at the back of a fishing boat with a smiling toddler on his lap." src="https://images.theconversation.com/files/366510/original/file-20201029-13-dea0w8.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=754&fit=clip" srcset="https://images.theconversation.com/files/366510/original/file-20201029-13-dea0w8.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=600&h=438&fit=crop&dpr=1 600w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/366510/original/file-20201029-13-dea0w8.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=30&auto=format&w=600&h=438&fit=crop&dpr=2 1200w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/366510/original/file-20201029-13-dea0w8.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=15&auto=format&w=600&h=438&fit=crop&dpr=3 1800w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/366510/original/file-20201029-13-dea0w8.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=754&h=551&fit=crop&dpr=1 754w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/366510/original/file-20201029-13-dea0w8.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=30&auto=format&w=754&h=551&fit=crop&dpr=2 1508w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/366510/original/file-20201029-13-dea0w8.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=15&auto=format&w=754&h=551&fit=crop&dpr=3 2262w" sizes="(min-width: 1466px) 754px, (max-width: 599px) 100vw, (min-width: 600px) 600px, 237px">
<figcaption>
<span class="caption">A Mi'kmaw fisher holds his son on his boat before heading out to set traps in Saulnierville, N.S. on Oct. 21, 2020.</span>
<span class="attribution"><span class="source">THE CANADIAN PRESS /Andrew Vaughan</span></span>
</figcaption>
</figure>
<p>In addition, Canada must justify any limits it places on the rights of Indigenous people engaged in fishing practices, as determined by the Supreme Court of Canada in <a href="https://indigenousfoundations.arts.ubc.ca/sparrow_case/"><em>R. vs. Sparrow</em> in 1990</a>. The court also affirmed Miʼkmaw treaty rights in <a href="https://casebrief.fandom.com/wiki/R_v_Simon"><em>R. vs. Simon</em></a> in 1985 and <a href="https://people.stfx.ca/rsg/srsf/researchreports1/FactSheets/Factsheet1.pdf"><em>R. vs. Marshall</em></a> in 1999.</p>
<p>Our research confirms that Mi’kmaq are aware of challenges with the exercise of treaty rights and supports the necessity for Mi’kmaq to develop fishery and fishing rules that are legitimate in the eyes of Mi’kmaw fishers, non-Indigenous fishers and DFO. Some communities have developed such rules, incorporating knowledge from both western and Indigenous systems. </p>
<p>However, the question remains, does DFO have the justification to intervene with Mi’kmaw lobster livelihood fishing practices if, as Dalhousie University fisheries expert Megan Bailey pointed out, there is no scientific evidence that the current practice of the lobster livelihood fishery threatens the sustainability of the stock? </p>
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Read more:
<a href="https://theconversation.com/nova-scotia-lobster-dispute-mikmaw-fishery-isnt-a-threat-to-conservation-say-scientists-148396">Nova Scotia lobster dispute: Mi’kmaw fishery isn't a threat to conservation, say scientists</a>
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<p>This needs to be cleared up. The Fisheries Act gives the DFO broad regulatory authority and this may extend to Indigenous fisheries. But the Marshall decision narrows that authority to apply only “where justification is shown.”</p>
<h2>Moving forward</h2>
<p>Canadians need to recognize that this current conflict playing out in Nova Scotia represents not only an operational nightmare for DFO but is a deep-seated governance issue. It requires developing a mechanism by which Mi’kmaq can legitimately contribute to the governance of fisheries as an integrated whole.</p>
<p><a href="https://www.thechronicleherald.ca/opinion/local-perspectives/shelley-denny-making-room-for-mikmaw-livelihood-fishery-easier-than-you-think-509373/">Short-term solutions</a> will be identified, but a longer-term solution must address the legal pluralism that exists in Canada and facilitate the adoption of other forms of governance models in which DFO does not have exclusive authority. </p>
<p>The current focus on the lobster livelihood fishery and finding a dollar definition for “moderate” misses the fact that the underlying governance gap is the crux of the issue.</p><img src="https://counter.theconversation.com/content/148978/count.gif" alt="The Conversation" width="1" height="1" />
<p class="fine-print"><em><span>Lucia Fanning receives funding from the Social Sciences and Humanities Research Council of Canada. </span></em></p><p class="fine-print"><em><span>Shelley Denny is affiliated with UINR. </span></em></p>The dispute over the Mi'kmaw lobster fishery isn’t only about money — it’s about who has the authority to govern and define these activities.Lucia Fanning, Professor Emerita, Marine Affairs Program, Dalhousie UniversityShelley Denny, IDPhD Candidate, Marine Affairs Program, Dalhousie UniversityLicensed as Creative Commons – attribution, no derivatives.tag:theconversation.com,2011:article/1483962020-10-20T20:02:55Z2020-10-20T20:02:55ZNova Scotia lobster dispute: Mi’kmaw fishery isn’t a threat to conservation, say scientists<figure><img src="https://images.theconversation.com/files/364585/original/file-20201020-17-1rbwt1z.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&rect=8%2C80%2C2833%2C1976&q=45&auto=format&w=496&fit=clip" /><figcaption><span class="caption">Members of the Sipekne'katik First Nation prepare to go fishing in Saulnierville, N.S., on, Sept. 17, 2020. </span> <span class="attribution"><span class="source">THE CANADIAN PRESS/Andrew Vaughan</span></span></figcaption></figure><p>In mid-September, the Sipekne'katik First Nation launched a moderate livelihood lobster fishery along the coast of southwestern Nova Scotia. Its fishers set out an estimated 250 traps at the time, the equivalent of one commercial boat. </p>
<p>Some, including the commercial fishing sector, worried this new fishery was a threat to maintaining healthy lobster stocks. Commercial fishers have articulated two conservation concerns about the Sipekne'katik fishery: its scale and whether fishing during the summer season — when lobsters molt and their shells are soft — is a problem for the survival of lobsters that are thrown back. </p>
<p>As a researcher with expertise in fisheries science, fisheries economics and marine policy, <a href="https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/mi-kmaw-fishery-moderate-livelihood-megan-bailey-conservation-dalhousie-university-1.5734030">I see no evidence the fishery will harm lobster stocks</a>. Conservation is not at the heart of the ongoing dispute. </p>
<h2>Inherent and treaty rights</h2>
<p>Mi'kmaq have <a href="https://www.aptnnews.ca/nation-to-nation/dear-non-mikmaw-fishers-mikmaq-in-nova-scotia-have-an-inherent-right-to-fish-you-do-not/">inherent rights to practise their traditions and customs</a>, including fishing. Under the Peace and Friendship Treaties signed in the 1700s, codified in the Constitution under Section 35 and reaffirmed by the Supreme Court, Mi’kmaq have a <a href="https://scc-csc.lexum.com/scc-csc/scc-csc/en/item/1739/index.do">right to harvest fish for food, social and ceremonial purposes</a> and a <a href="https://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/publications/fisheries-peches/marshall-1999-eng.html">right to fish for a moderate livelihood</a>. </p>
<p>Yet two decades later, there has been no clarity on what “moderate livelihood” means, nor how implementation of the treaty right should unfold. Great people have been working on it, but it is not a trivial question. </p>
<p>Others have as well, including <a href="https://listuguj.ca/listuguj-migmaq-government-fall-lobster-fishery-a-success-despite-opposition-from-department-of-fisheries-and-oceans/">Listuguj</a> and <a href="https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/mi-kmaw-moderate-livelihood-fishery-potlotek-1.5765457">Potolek</a> First Nations.</p>
<figure class="align-center ">
<img alt="Debris from a burnt building next to the ocean." src="https://images.theconversation.com/files/364583/original/file-20201020-15-1dkfw7r.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=754&fit=clip" srcset="https://images.theconversation.com/files/364583/original/file-20201020-15-1dkfw7r.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=600&h=442&fit=crop&dpr=1 600w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/364583/original/file-20201020-15-1dkfw7r.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=30&auto=format&w=600&h=442&fit=crop&dpr=2 1200w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/364583/original/file-20201020-15-1dkfw7r.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=15&auto=format&w=600&h=442&fit=crop&dpr=3 1800w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/364583/original/file-20201020-15-1dkfw7r.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=754&h=555&fit=crop&dpr=1 754w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/364583/original/file-20201020-15-1dkfw7r.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=30&auto=format&w=754&h=555&fit=crop&dpr=2 1508w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/364583/original/file-20201020-15-1dkfw7r.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=15&auto=format&w=754&h=555&fit=crop&dpr=3 2262w" sizes="(min-width: 1466px) 754px, (max-width: 599px) 100vw, (min-width: 600px) 600px, 237px">
<figcaption>
<span class="caption">Fire destroyed a lobster pound being used by Mi'kmaw fishers in Middle West Pubnico, N.S., on Oct. 17, 2020.</span>
<span class="attribution"><span class="source">THE CANADIAN PRESS /Andrew Vaughan</span></span>
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</figure>
<p>The protests over the Mi'kmaw fishery have escalated to acts of vandalism and violence. The message from commercial fishers is that fishing in St. Marys Bay outside the commercial season is illegal and a conservation concern. In fact, it is neither. </p>
<p>Fisheries and Oceans Canada (DFO) did not immediately help the situation. Fisheries Minister Bernadette Jordan and Crown-Indigenous Relations Minister Carolyn Bennett waited five days to make an explicit statement that it was, in fact, a <a href="https://www.canada.ca/en/fisheries-oceans/news/2020/09/joint-statement-from-minister-jordan-and-minister-bennett.html">legal fishery</a>. By that time, the commercial sector’s view became further entrenched. </p>
<h2>Conservation concerns unfounded</h2>
<p>The commercial lobster season in Lobster Fishing Area 34, where the bay is located, runs from late November to late May. The livelihood fishery was launched outside that, leading the commercial harvesters to label it as illegal. Yet, as <a href="https://www.thechronicleherald.ca/opinion/local-perspectives/shelley-denny-making-room-for-mikmaw-livelihood-fishery-easier-than-you-think-509373/">Shelley Denny, a Mi'kmaw doctoral student at Dalhousie University, points out</a>, there are two sets of rules for Indigenous and non-Indigenous fish harvesters. The Indigenous fishery is not illegal, but is it a conservation concern?</p>
<figure class="align-center ">
<img alt="The sun sets over a harbour." src="https://images.theconversation.com/files/364371/original/file-20201020-21-1emnx9p.JPG?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=754&fit=clip" srcset="https://images.theconversation.com/files/364371/original/file-20201020-21-1emnx9p.JPG?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=600&h=450&fit=crop&dpr=1 600w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/364371/original/file-20201020-21-1emnx9p.JPG?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=30&auto=format&w=600&h=450&fit=crop&dpr=2 1200w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/364371/original/file-20201020-21-1emnx9p.JPG?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=15&auto=format&w=600&h=450&fit=crop&dpr=3 1800w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/364371/original/file-20201020-21-1emnx9p.JPG?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=754&h=565&fit=crop&dpr=1 754w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/364371/original/file-20201020-21-1emnx9p.JPG?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=30&auto=format&w=754&h=565&fit=crop&dpr=2 1508w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/364371/original/file-20201020-21-1emnx9p.JPG?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=15&auto=format&w=754&h=565&fit=crop&dpr=3 2262w" sizes="(min-width: 1466px) 754px, (max-width: 599px) 100vw, (min-width: 600px) 600px, 237px">
<figcaption>
<span class="caption">The sun sets over the wharf in Saunierville, N.S.</span>
<span class="attribution"><span class="source">(Brandon Maloney)</span>, <span class="license">Author provided</span></span>
</figcaption>
</figure>
<p>Initially, five Sipekne’katik vessels were fishing 50 traps per vessel; there are now reportedly 10 vessels fishing a total of 500 traps. Compare that to the commercial sector, where each vessel — there are about 100 fishing in the bay — is allowed to fish 350 traps, for a total of about 35,000 traps. </p>
<p>There is no reason, no science, to suggest that the equivalent of one or two commercial vessels fishing in St. Marys Bay will be problematic. Lobster biologist Robert Steneck would <a href="https://www.hakaimagazine.com/news/mikmaw-fishery-dispute-is-not-about-conservation-scientists-say/">bet you a beer</a> there will be no negative impact on the lobster population. </p>
<p>Fisheries scientists and managers need only look to our neighbour to the south, Maine, which operates a year-round lobster fishery. In the summer, lobster molt and their shells are soft, resulting in a lower quality lobster. The Canadian market doesn’t prioritize these lobsters, even though Maine does. </p>
<p>These lobsters are more susceptible to what’s called “post-release mortality,” meaning that those lobsters that cannot be kept — lobsters that are too small or females bearing eggs, for example — are thrown back and may not survive. This mortality needs to be accounted for, but it doesn’t mean it’s not sustainable to fish during the summer. </p>
<h2>Normal catches</h2>
<p>One index fisheries scientists use to measure the status of a resource is called catch per unit effort (CPUE). In this case, lobster is the unit and the effort invested is one vessel.</p>
<p>While not perfect, the CPUE represents a relative abundance of lobster in a given area. When CPUE falls, it may be a sign that fewer lobsters are available in that particular area, but may or may not signal that the population as a whole may be in trouble.</p>
<figure class="align-center ">
<img alt="A man hauling a lobster trap down a ramp to waiting boats." src="https://images.theconversation.com/files/364587/original/file-20201020-23-h0kydb.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=754&fit=clip" srcset="https://images.theconversation.com/files/364587/original/file-20201020-23-h0kydb.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=600&h=438&fit=crop&dpr=1 600w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/364587/original/file-20201020-23-h0kydb.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=30&auto=format&w=600&h=438&fit=crop&dpr=2 1200w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/364587/original/file-20201020-23-h0kydb.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=15&auto=format&w=600&h=438&fit=crop&dpr=3 1800w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/364587/original/file-20201020-23-h0kydb.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=754&h=550&fit=crop&dpr=1 754w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/364587/original/file-20201020-23-h0kydb.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=30&auto=format&w=754&h=550&fit=crop&dpr=2 1508w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/364587/original/file-20201020-23-h0kydb.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=15&auto=format&w=754&h=550&fit=crop&dpr=3 2262w" sizes="(min-width: 1466px) 754px, (max-width: 599px) 100vw, (min-width: 600px) 600px, 237px">
<figcaption>
<span class="caption">Members of the Sipekne'katik First Nation load lobster traps on the wharf in Saulnierville, N.S., in September 2020.</span>
<span class="attribution"><span class="source">THE CANADIAN PRESS/Andrew Vaughan</span></span>
</figcaption>
</figure>
<p>Data for St. Marys Bay and Lobster Fishing Area 34 show that commercial catches have declined the past two years compared to the 2015-16 season. Commercial fishers have argued this is due to the summer “food, social and ceremonial” fishery that operates outside the commercial season. </p>
<p>The recent protests have targeted the “livelihood” fishery, but it seems that what the commercial sector is actually angry about is the food, social and ceremonial fishery. According to Brandon Maloney, fisheries director for Sipekne’katik, the band developed their plan for this fishery twenty years ago — this is not a new development. </p>
<p>So, what does the CPUE for St. Marys Bay look like over the past 16 years? I took the data released by Fisheries and Oceans Canada and calculated it. Although the CPUE in the past two years are on the lower end of the range, they are clearly within it. And they really only seem low when compared to the highs recorded in 2015-16. </p>
<figure class="align-center ">
<img alt="Figure showing the CPUE fluctuations over time" src="https://images.theconversation.com/files/364370/original/file-20201020-13-12cxv6l.png?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=754&fit=clip" srcset="https://images.theconversation.com/files/364370/original/file-20201020-13-12cxv6l.png?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=600&h=349&fit=crop&dpr=1 600w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/364370/original/file-20201020-13-12cxv6l.png?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=30&auto=format&w=600&h=349&fit=crop&dpr=2 1200w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/364370/original/file-20201020-13-12cxv6l.png?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=15&auto=format&w=600&h=349&fit=crop&dpr=3 1800w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/364370/original/file-20201020-13-12cxv6l.png?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=754&h=438&fit=crop&dpr=1 754w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/364370/original/file-20201020-13-12cxv6l.png?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=30&auto=format&w=754&h=438&fit=crop&dpr=2 1508w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/364370/original/file-20201020-13-12cxv6l.png?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=15&auto=format&w=754&h=438&fit=crop&dpr=3 2262w" sizes="(min-width: 1466px) 754px, (max-width: 599px) 100vw, (min-width: 600px) 600px, 237px">
<figcaption>
<span class="caption">CPUE for St. Marys Bay and Lobster Fishing Area 34, 2002-19.</span>
<span class="attribution"><span class="source">(Author provided. Data from DFO, September 2020.)</span></span>
</figcaption>
</figure>
<p>The assertion that the drop in bay catches is a conservation concern is wrong, as <a href="https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/mi-kmaw-fishery-moderate-livelihood-megan-bailey-conservation-dalhousie-university-1.5734030">DFO itself has stated</a>. So if there is no conservation concern, then the assertion that Indigenous summer food fisheries are decimating the stocks, as the commercial sector has argued, is incorrect. </p>
<p>It’s not surprising that commercial fishers are upset by a decrease in lobster landings in St. Marys Bay. But my assessment of the fishery is not why the public has a poor view of the group. </p>
<p>Their behaviour has been abhorrent. The sector needs to address its racism, cease its vigilantism, support dialogue and ensure that its positions are grounded in evidence. And, as Denny argues, it must make <a href="https://www.thechronicleherald.ca/opinion/local-perspectives/shelley-denny-making-room-for-mikmaw-livelihood-fishery-easier-than-you-think-509373/">room for the livelihood fishery</a>. The rest of Canada — and the world — is watching in shame. We must do better.</p><img src="https://counter.theconversation.com/content/148396/count.gif" alt="The Conversation" width="1" height="1" />
<p class="fine-print"><em><span>Megan Bailey is on the Board of the Fishermen and Scientists Research Society. </span></em></p>The message from commercial fishers is that fishing in St. Marys Bay outside the commercial season is illegal and a conservation concern. In fact, it is neither.Megan Bailey, Associate Professor, Canada Research Chair, Integrated Ocean and Coastal Governance, Dalhousie UniversityLicensed as Creative Commons – attribution, no derivatives.