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California calling: Australia isn’t alone on carbon action

Australia will not be linking its emissions trading scheme to California any time soon. But Australia will have to increase its emissions reduction targets to between 15-25% below 2000 levels by 2020…

California isn’t just controlling its own emissions, but the emissions it benefits from. Kenneth Lu

Australia will not be linking its emissions trading scheme to California any time soon. But Australia will have to increase its emissions reduction targets to between 15-25% below 2000 levels by 2020, following climate action by the European Union, US, Canada, and China.

At a public seminar hosted by Grattan Institute earlier this week, the chairman of the California Air Resources Board destroyed two myths. Mary Nichols, one of Time Magazine’s 100 most influential people, demonstrated that the world is moving on climate change and that cap-and-trade emissions trading schemes (ETS) are well and truly alive.

However, political uncertainty regarding the future of Australia’s emissions trading scheme means that, for California, linking the Australian and Californian schemes, and by extension the EU scheme, are not an immediate priority.

So, what can we learn from California and from climate action around the world?

California dreaming

This year President Obama resorted to regulation to ensure that the USA meets its target to reduce greenhouse gas emissions by 17% below 2005 levels by 2020.

Professor Ross Garnaut joined Mary Nichols at last night’s seminar and noted that, before its election, the Obama administration had been looking to cap-and-trade as the most efficient and lowest cost way to reduce emissions. Having failed to get that legislation through Congress, they accepted that regulation would be necessary, albeit inefficient and higher cost.

However, individual states have flexibility in how they proceed, and California has adopted an ETS. Its target is to scale back emissions to 1990 levels by 2020.

The scheme became operational from 1 January 2013, and there have been three auctions of carbon allowances to date. The scheme now covers electricity, cement, refineries and other large industries, with natural gas and transport to be included from 2015. The scheme also covers emissions produced in other states to generate electricity consumed in California.

Permits are currently trading above US$13 per tonne, and the scheme includes mechanisms to support companies so they don’t move operations elsewhere to avoid the carbon price.

Linking to Quebec

From January, 2014 the Californian scheme will be linked with Quebec’s cap-and-trade scheme. Mary Nichols made it very clear that this linkage had been carefully planned, and that there is close alignment between both schemes on the important design elements.

While Quebec will auction its permits, in contrast to California’s decision to allocate most of its permits for free, this does not affect the value of the permits in the carbon market place. It will be interesting to see if and when other US states follow the Californian example, rather than go down the higher cost, regulatory route.

While in Australia, Mary Nichols signed a Memorandum of Understanding with the chair of Australian Climate Change Regulator, Chloe Munro, to guide collaboration between the agencies in addressing the global issue of climate change. Both agencies intend to learn much from each other’s experiences in implementing an ETS.

What about China?

Discussion regarding international action on climate change and policies doesn’t make sense without considering China, now the world’s biggest emitter.

Both Mary Nichols and Ross Garnaut highlighted progress being made in China to reduce the emissions intensity of its economy. Measures include shutting down old, dirty coal-fired power plants, constraining coal consumption, supporting renewable energy and introducing pilot ETS programs.

At a conference on Tuesday, Xie Zhenhua, the vice chairman of the National Development and Reform Commission, said China could spend nearly US$300 billion on renewable energy in the current five-year plan. He also confirmed that, in 2015, the government will gradually expand the carbon trading pilot program towards the creation of a national market.

Australia doing its part

In Australia, both the Government and the Opposition Coalition support Australia’s international commitment to reduce emission by 15-25% below 2000 levels by 2020, conditional on international action. The actions being taken by the European Union and countries such as the USA, Canada and China demonstrate that this commitment will need to be formally triggered.

It may not be as neat as many environmental activists might wish, but global action on climate change is well beyond the claims of sceptics and those opposed to Australia’s playing its part in this action.

In April, 2011 Grattan Institute’s report, Learning the hard way: Australia’s policies to reduce emissions, concluded that only an economy-wide carbon price can achieve the scale and speed of reductions required for Australia to meet its 2020 commitments without excessive cost to the economy or taxpayer. Adoption of this approach by an increasing range of governments suggests that this conclusion is the right one.

Join the conversation

69 Comments sorted by

  1. Neil Gibson

    Retired Electronics Design Engineer

    California is an economic basket case with one of the highest jobless rates in the country and massive debts resulting from years of "progressive " government.Businesses are fleeing the state due to crackpot government policies. Labor has not got Australia to the same point yet but they are working on it with one of the fastest growing debt burdens in the world,skyrocketing energy costs and policies like the carbon tax to ensure they do get there. Australia does not have to follow other global warming lemmings over a fiscal cliff especially at a time when climate model predictions have failed miserably and the world is entering a cooling phase. We may need all the CO2 we can get to maintain food production as the world cools.
    http://c3headlines.typepad.com/.a/6a010536b58035970c019104802556970c-pi

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    1. Mike Hansen

      Mr.

      In reply to Neil Gibson

      In the crazy, wacky world of the climate science denier up is down and down is up.

      "the nation's GDP expanded by 1.7 percent in the second quarter according to the U.S. Commerce Department's Bureau of Economic Analysis, beating some economist expectations. "
      "The new data doesn’t necessarily mean much for California’s economy. Different reports have already forecasted the Golden State’s gross state product will grow 3 percent this year and 4 percent in 2014. Both numbers would significantly outperform…

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    2. Alice Kelly
      Alice Kelly is a Friend of The Conversation.

      sole parent

      In reply to Neil Gibson

      Hang on there, California in the last year has had a 2.1 % improvement in unemployment , the highest improvement in the country, a basket state would not be able to improve their rate by that much would they? Which makes their unemployment rate of 8.6, one percentage point above the national average. http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2013/06/21/may-state-unemployment-rates/2445725/
      Detroit is a basket case, however it's reliance on cars no-one wanted anymore is probably something to think about. When Detroit gets back on it's feet will they be as stupid as those who didn't notice what was happening?
      http://www.smh.com.au/world/broke-not-beaten-the-motor-citys-long-road-to-redemption-20130727-2qr83.html

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    3. Neil Gibson

      Retired Electronics Design Engineer

      In reply to Alice Kelly

      "California was tied in February with Mississippi and Nevada for the highest state jobless rate in the country at 9.3%. At only 3.3%, North Dakota once again led the nation with the lowest state unemployment rate. Employment in California remains almost 4% below the pre-recession 2007 level, while the Great Recession barely even affected North Dakota’s employment, which is now 22% above the slight dip in 2009.

      North Dakota’s budget reserves are expected to top $2 billion this year, while California is faced with $34 billion in outstanding debts."
      http://www.aei-ideas.org/2013/04/californias-dilemma-remain-a-basket-case-state-economy-or-become-more-like-north-dakota/
      Interestingly California could get itself out of the mess by doing as North Dakota did and drill the huge Monterey shale deposits which apparently are much bigger that the Bakken fields.

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    4. Alice Kelly
      Alice Kelly is a Friend of The Conversation.

      sole parent

      In reply to Neil Gibson

      You might light to try the link "highest state jobless rate" in the first sentence of that article by the American Enterprise Institute , California sits at 8.5%, 0.1% less than May, which was the may figure I referred you to. There are 10 states with worse unemployment, I repeat, the fastest improvement (California).
      California has a population of 38,000,000, North Dakota 700,000. The two have very different labour markets and I doubt exploitation of shale deposits would solve Californias problems.
      California is not a basket case, and the debt not great if you take into account the fact that they have the largest population of all US states.

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    5. Mike Swinbourne

      logged in via Facebook

      In reply to Neil Gibson

      ".....at a time when climate model predictions have failed miserably and the world is entering a cooling phase...."

      Oh Neil, you are such a comedian. That is such obvious nonsense that it can only be Poe.

      Well done for making climate change deniers look like idiots with your clever wit and adoption of an extremist position.

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    6. Neil Gibson

      Retired Electronics Design Engineer

      In reply to Mike Hansen

      Predictable Mike who can't read or understand graphs although the graph I referenced is a derivative which makes it a little harder. The rate of global temperature change is now negative and getting more so. If Mike would like to check and analyse the Hadcrut data he would get the same answer. Mike is in absolute denial about the cessation of global warming when even the experts do not deny it although they think it is now hiding somewhere in the deep oceans where it can't be proved one way or the other.

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    7. Mike Hansen

      Mr.

      In reply to Neil Gibson

      In case anyone missed it, here is the graph that Neil linked to.
      http://c3headlines.typepad.com/.a/6a010536b58035970c019104802556970c-pi

      This is supposed to be evidence of "accelerated global cooling".

      I am not sure what is sadder - that some Captain Clueless created the graph or that Neil believes it.

      Here is an entertaining article from Dr Richard Alley, Professor of Geosciences at the Pennsylvania State University who maps out his life milestones based on previous "accelerated global cooling" events.

      http://www.huffingtonpost.com/richard-alley/global-warming-didnt-stop-in-1998_b_1475119.html

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    8. Ian Alexander

      Reader

      In reply to Mike Hansen

      Gibson again demonstrates the validity of the Salem Hypothesis... these old white male deniers just never learn...

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    9. Alice Kelly
      Alice Kelly is a Friend of The Conversation.

      sole parent

      In reply to Neil Gibson

      Not much point trying to understand that one. I have a good idea, sink as much super into iron, aluminium, coal seam gas, shale oil and the good one, coal and let me know what the returns are in ten years time. It's all a conspiracy you know.

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    10. Alice Kelly
      Alice Kelly is a Friend of The Conversation.

      sole parent

      In reply to Mike Hansen

      Add ten years anomaly temps. then divide by 10, 1991-2000, 1992-2001 etc , to get a really averaged increase, and this is what
      it looks like;
      1991-2000 +.423
      1992-2001 +.432
      1993-2002 +.466
      1994-2003 +.495
      1995-2004 +.508
      1996-2005 +.529
      1997-2006 +.558
      1998-2007 +.555
      1999-2008 +.540
      2000-2009 +.560
      2001-2010 +.587
      2002-2011 +.593
      2003-2012 +.598 (looks like a continual rise to me)
      Source data;
      http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/cag/time-series/global
      How was that bogus chart made, does my head in, why are there people out there putting this rubbish on the internet, and more embarrassing, why do people believe this crap?

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    11. Neil Gibson

      Retired Electronics Design Engineer

      In reply to Alice Kelly

      You are missing the point Alice . It is a polynomial curve fit showing the shape of the changing temperature anomaly. Consider that you are looking at a hill from the bottom drawing straight lines from halfway up will never show you are over the top and heading down as a polynomial fit will. If you don't understand something calling it crap does not advance your argument at all. You do have company as Mike Hansen of course does not understand it either .

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    12. Grant Burfield

      Dr

      In reply to Alice Kelly

      Alice Kelly - a very informative time series analysis of global temperature anomalies.
      Thankyou.

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    13. Ian L. McQueen

      Retired

      In reply to Mike Swinbourne

      MIke-

      How about providing some evidence of what you believe instead of only throwing metaphorical rocks at some one who dares tell the truth? The world has not warmed for the past 16years (check with UK Met and IPCC if you don't want to believe me) and there is no real evidence anywhere that carbon dioxide regulates our climate. The whole AGW tale is built on computer models and outputs that are not worth considering. Unless you read beyond the usual alarmist sources you will never be truly informed about climate. Read something reliable like WUWT and have your eyes opened. Climate and weather vary naturally, and that is what we have been seeing.

      Best regards.

      IanM

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    14. Glenn Tamblyn

      Mechanical Engineer, Director

      In reply to Ian L. McQueen

      "Read something reliable like WUWT...."

      WOW, we really have slid down the rabbit hole haven't we.

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    15. Neil Gibson

      Retired Electronics Design Engineer

      In reply to Glenn Tamblyn

      Dr. Nils-Axel Mörner


      Dr. Nils-Axel Mörner has worked with sea level problems for 40 years in areas scattered all over the globe. As head of the unit of Paleogeophysics & Geodynamics at Stockholm University, he worked with many different geological-geophysical problems. He organized two major international conferences; one on “Earth Rheology, Isostasy and Eustasy” in 1977, and one on “Climatic Changes on a Yearly to Millennial Basis” in 1983. He has run several international field excursions…

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    16. Mike Swinbourne

      logged in via Facebook

      In reply to Ian L. McQueen

      Oh Ian, I have already congratulated you on your Poe and for making deniers look like idiots with their foolish statements.

      You didn't need to add to it by suggesting that WUWT is reliable. We already got the point about nonsensical statements.

      But let's just accept the fact that WUWT is reliable. How about you go back over some of the reoent posts at that bastion of 'reliability' and tell me which ones of these you accept.

      There is no warming
      There is warming, but its natural
      There…

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    17. Mike Swinbourne

      logged in via Facebook

      In reply to Neil Gibson

      "....Dr. Nils-Axel Mörner has worked with sea level problems for 40 years in areas scattered all over the globe...."

      And yet, he deliberately cherry picks his data and ignores anything that doesn't agree with the conclusion that he has already formulated. If you disagree, please tell us why he deliberately left the last three years of data and the previous 40 years of data out of his opinion piece at WUWT.

      You know - science.

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    18. Chris O'Neill

      Victim of Tony Abbotts Great Big New Tax

      In reply to Neil Gibson

      These denialists are happy to put up proof by supposed authority when they feel like it.

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    19. Glenn Tamblyn

      Mechanical Engineer, Director

      In reply to Neil Gibson

      And you would seemingly be make out that Axel-Morner is the only person studying sea level. He isn't, lots of scientists study the field, often in far more detail than Axel Morner does.

      And amongst his colleagues, his reputation is zero. Precisely because he has become that saddest of academic creatures. A Professor who becomes a crank because he has painted himself into a corner and wont retreat from a position he has taken. He isn't alone in this, other scientists over the years have done the…

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    20. Alice Kelly
      Alice Kelly is a Friend of The Conversation.

      sole parent

      In reply to Neil Gibson

      "the world is entering a cooling phase"
      no, the world is warming, you don't get it, the temperatures speak for themselves, and this year will be no different.

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    21. Ian L. McQueen

      Retired

      In reply to Alice Kelly

      Alice Kelly-

      You are entitled to your own opinions. You are not entitled to invent your own "facts', so on what basis do you state that "the world is warming". Do you disagree with the UK Met office and the IPCC?

      Best regards.

      IanM

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    22. Ian L. McQueen

      Retired

      In reply to Chris O'Neill

      Moderators-
      I was under the impression that this was supposed to be a gentlemanly place for discussion, not where one is free to throw out slurs like "Pathological lying".

      In addition, if Mr. O'Neill wishes to consult the UK Met office or IPCC he will probably find that they also agree that the world has not warmed for the past 16 years. This may not be what Mr. O'Neill wishes to believe, but wishing does not make it so.

      Best regards.

      IanM

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    23. Ian L. McQueen

      Retired

      In reply to Mike Swinbourne

      Mike Swinbourne-

      You have found content at WUWT that I don't recall. But I am not going to take time to check your assertions. Maybe, just maybe, you are correct. However, the following are facts, not opinions, and are the foundation on which I work:
      -CO2 is less than 0.0004 of the atmosphere.
      -Man's contribution to the amount of CO2 in the air is less than 5%; the other 95%+ comes from natural sources.
      -The first 20 ppm contributed most of the warming by CO2, the logarithmic relationship…

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    24. Ian L. McQueen

      Retired

      In reply to Mike Swinbourne

      Moderators-

      Are words like "idiots" permitted on this forum? Certainly, no scientific publication would ever stoop so low as to use language like this.

      Mike, if you disagree with something, tell us why. An ad hom is not acceptable in adult discussions.

      Best regards.

      IanM

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    25. Doug Hutcheson

      Poet

      In reply to Ian L. McQueen

      Ian, it depends what you mean by 'the world'. If you include the whole planet - land, sea and air - then it is plain that warming continues unabated. If you look only at land surface temperatures and cherry-pick your start and end dates to cover a time-frame too short to show the signal over the noise (in your case, 16 years), then you could claim the warming is not statistically significant, but it is still warming. It would be interesting to see measurements over a useful period that prove the land surface temperature is in a cooling phase; it would be amazing to see such measurements that prove the whole planet is cooling! I am sceptical, but would be interested in any links to the science proving your claim.

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    26. Ian L. McQueen

      Retired

      In reply to Alice Kelly

      Alice-

      As I understand it Detroilt did not fail because it relied on cars no one wanted- it failed because the car manufacturers found it more economical to build cars elsewhere.

      I will agree with your generalization in the past about most American cars, but the newest Chevrolet has been given very high marks. One can suggest that giving priority to bean-counters instead of engineers has been one of the major causes of problems for U.S. car manufacturers.

      Best regards.

      IanM

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    27. Mike Hansen

      Mr.

      In reply to Ian L. McQueen

      Instead of linking to climate crank blogs Ian, how about some links to peer reviewed science.

      If garbage from crank blogs overturned science, then the prevailing theory in evolutionary biology would be creationism.

      You whine because no one will engage with your crank ideas. If someone turned up claiming the world was created in 7 days and humans walked with dinosaurs, I would not bother debating them either.
      http://www.examiner.com/article/evidence-that-humans-walked-with-dinosaurs

      Link to some peer reviewed science and we can have a discussion.

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    28. Doug Hutcheson

      Poet

      In reply to Ian L. McQueen

      Ian, you have served up a smörgåsbord of factoids, so let's examine them.

      "-CO2 is less than 0.0004 of the atmosphere."
      So what?

      "-Man's contribution to the amount of CO2 in the air is less than 5%; the other 95%+ comes from natural sources."
      Over the last 150 years, carbon dioxide (CO2) concentrations have risen from 280 to nearly 380 parts per million (ppm). How do we know humans are the cause? Look at http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2004/12/how-do-we-know-that-recent-cosub2sub-increases-are-due-to-human-activities-updated

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    29. Ian L. McQueen

      Retired

      In reply to Mike Hansen

      Hi Mike-

      Your posting shows that you are wildly out of touch with reality. Yes, "peer review" works in virtually all other branches of science, but when it comes to "climate science", "peer review" has, unfortunately, largely become "pal review". You are probably unaware, but warmists have gained control of what used to be trustworthy publications and now block the publication of anything that goes against the AGW hypothesis. Yeah, I know, that sounds like paranoia and the like, but when it is…

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    30. Mike Swinbourne

      logged in via Facebook

      In reply to Ian L. McQueen

      Ian

      You complain thus:

      "....I was under the impression that this was supposed to be a gentlemanly place for discussion, not where one is free to throw out slurs like "Pathological lying"..."

      Yet in the very next statement, you claim this:

      ".... addition, if Mr. O'Neill wishes to consult the UK Met office or IPCC he will probably find that they also agree that the world has not warmed for the past 16 years...."

      If you are going to continue to lie Ian, it is pretty disingenuous to complain…

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    31. Mike Hansen

      Mr.

      In reply to Ian L. McQueen

      You make my point for me Ian by immediately resorting to a conspiracy theory to justify your linking to the climate crank blogs.

      So in any discussion with you, if I present the scientific evidence to support the theory of global warming, you refute it by waving your arms about and claiming it is all a conspiracy.

      Why would anyone interested in the science waste their time with you?

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    32. Chris O'Neill

      Victim of Tony Abbotts Great Big New Tax

      In reply to Ian L. McQueen

      "the word "crank" being used three times. Why has there been no intervention here?"

      Because truth is not always censored.

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    33. Alice Kelly
      Alice Kelly is a Friend of The Conversation.

      sole parent

      In reply to Ian L. McQueen

      The invention of facts is more your thing Ian. The UK met office clearly states "There's a wide range of evidence which indicates our climate is warming" and talks about temperature rise ,ocean temp, changes in nature sea level rise melting glaciers reduction in arctic sea-ice and shrinking ice sheets.
      I haven't seen anything at the UK met stating otherwise
      http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/climate-change/guide/how
      Like wise the IPCC will probably give a figure between 1.5 and 4.5, rather than (2.0- 4.5), either scenario means warming, we'll know soon enough. But nowhere is there anything about the world not warming.
      http://watchingthedeniers.wordpress.com/2013/07/30/uncertainty-is-not-our-friend-leaked-ipcc-report-confirms-climate-change-sti

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    34. Alice Kelly
      Alice Kelly is a Friend of The Conversation.

      sole parent

      In reply to Ian L. McQueen

      Why don't you Ian, you can contact them, and show the answer here, or you could show me now, anything at the UK met office where it is stated that the world has not warmed for the past 16 years.

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    35. Chris O'Neill

      Victim of Tony Abbotts Great Big New Tax

      In reply to Ian L. McQueen

      "no scientific publication would ever"

      A scientific publication would never publish your trash.

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    36. Chris O'Neill

      Victim of Tony Abbotts Great Big New Tax

      In reply to Ian L. McQueen

      It is a statement of fact. Do you think it is impossible for you to lie? "Gentlemen" have been know to spread lies which a lot of people regard as telling lies.

      "probably find that they also agree that the world has not warmed for the past 16 years."

      They most certainly do not agree that the world has not warmed for the past 16 years. A 10% or so chance of not warming is not the same as not warming. You want to believe they are the same but wishing does not make it so.

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    37. Chris O'Neill

      Victim of Tony Abbotts Great Big New Tax

      In reply to Ian L. McQueen

      "You are not entitled to invent your own "facts'"

      Ian McQueen is entitled to invent his own "facts".

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    38. Dianna Arthur
      Dianna Arthur is a Friend of The Conversation.

      Environmentalist

      In reply to Alice Kelly

      Alice, I second that request.

      A direct link to the UK meteorological service showing clearly that planet Earth has in fact not warmed for the past 16 years.

      Thank you

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    39. Alice Kelly
      Alice Kelly is a Friend of The Conversation.

      sole parent

      In reply to Ian L. McQueen

      No it is not enough, please show direct evidence from the IPPC and the UK MET. office that states they believe the world is not warming, and has not warmed in the last 16 years.
      You have stated this three times, put up, or sh.. up.

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    40. Glenn Tamblyn

      logged in via Facebook

      In reply to Ian L. McQueen

      Ian

      The world is warming as we speak. It has never stopped warming. Heat is being added to the oceans at a rate of around 250 TeraWatts. (check with NOAA if you don't believe me).

      That's around 4 Hiroshima bombs per second.

      Or if you want a more local statistic, enough extra heat to boil Sydney Harbour dry every 6 hours.

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    41. Glenn Tamblyn

      logged in via Facebook

      In reply to Ian L. McQueen

      Wow Ian.
      'Warmists', whatever you think that actually means, have 'gained control' of 100's if not several 1000 scientific journals. Which means that they spend most of their time controlling the vast amount of science published in all those journals in all the 1000's of other, non climate related fields of science.

      It's all part of that dastardly plot by those evil nefarious 'Warmists', scheming away .... BWAHHAAHHHAAA...

      Get a grip Ian.

      Maybe you have spent to much time at places like WUWT, listening to the noise at wingnut central - that is the sort of tripe Ant's and his ilk peddle. How could you have fallen for their con-job?

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  2. John Newlands

    tree changer

    It's interesting that California did not link to the EU scheme which has yet to introduce permit auctions. I understand the EU is now oversupplied with offsets based on the dodgy 'clean development' principle. If all the ETSes could find common ground they could link together and slap carbon tariffs on goods made not only in China but the mainland US as well. Eventually this low carbon bloc could force the hand of the laggards.

    California is off to a low start themselves with the 2.2 GW San Onofre nuclear plant being mothballed at an alleged cost of over $13bn to electricity users. Due to an innocuous 200 litre a day steam leak the power will now be made up probably by gas fired generation. It's as if the runners went backwards after the starting pistol fired.

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  3. Mark Pollock

    Analyst

    The Chinese may be "shutting down old, dirty coal-fired power plants, constraining coal consumption" but they are building lotsa new ones, thereby increasing consumption (so are the Indians).

    Why do the authors not mention this? Are they trying to hide something?

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    1. Mike Hansen

      Mr.

      In reply to Mark Pollock

      Oh yes. Good point. Tony Wood tried to fool you by referring to "China, now the world’s biggest emitter." He also did not mention India or Germany or Japan - clear evidence of a conspiracy.

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    2. Ian Alexander

      Reader

      In reply to Mike Hansen

      The words all blur into one when Mark is reading...he just sees the word 'climate' and he must start denying!

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  4. Dianna Arthur
    Dianna Arthur is a Friend of The Conversation.

    Environmentalist

    At the very least, the old excuse of "Australia should wait until rest of world do something" no longer holds any weight.

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    1. Alice Kelly
      Alice Kelly is a Friend of The Conversation.

      sole parent

      In reply to Dianna Arthur

      There's no reason for us to wait for a single world agreement or method for linking in a clever way to a state like california, shared r&d commitment etc. Something which is also brought up being "the ineffectiveness and limitations" of the technology. We could link to the eu and countries in different ways, and at the same time? Hedge the bet so to speak.

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    2. Gerard Dean

      Managing Director

      In reply to Dianna Arthur

      Ms Arthur

      Are you seriously telling us that Australia should follow California's 'lead' when it comes to cutting fossil fuel usage?

      California is a energy sucking monster that devours water, oil, gas, coal and food from surrounding states and the planet.

      Open your eyes when you next burn some JetA1 fuel to fly to the USA for your next holiday and lok a the millions of SUV's on the 7 lane freeways and the huge airconditioners and pools on virtually every house.

      California, like its Hollywood, is a vision, a dream, a lifestyle that looks nice and green, but underneath it is a black, energy sucking beast.

      Don't believe their movie's, look at what they do.

      Gerard Dean

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    3. Glenn Tamblyn

      Mechanical Engineer, Director

      In reply to Gerard Dean

      So lets look at one small aspect of 'what they do' Gerard.

      Mary Nichols from CARB is quoted in this piece. You do realize the power that CARB has don't you?

      CARB sets various air quality standards for California. Including standards for vehicle emissions, the appropriate technologies to be used to achieve this, the methods used to verify this etc. Right down to the design of the plug in the vehicle that is used to interface with the vehicle and check up on what it is doing. It is called an ALDL plug.

      But California is nearly 20% of the US population/market. So what CARB mandates often ends up being the de-facto US standard. Then the de-facto US Standard then becomes the global standard - if you want to sell cars in the US/World you need to keep CARB happy.

      Cars from all over the world have an ALDL plug somewhere in the vehicle. Mandated by CARB.

      So CARB can/does have a huge impact on how a huge pile of stuff works.

      It ain't nearly as simple as you paint it!

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  5. Natasha turnbull

    Student

    California flatly refused to link their ETS to Australia's despite the request from Australia.

    ETS is an experiment where Europe has demonstrated disastrous result in economy term, I think this is the main reason of California's refusal for any external linkage given the fragil state of American economy.

    Other reasons: linking international markets for trading a substance in paper only is brewing ground for fraud; coalition may get into power- no ETS.

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  6. Natasha turnbull

    Student

    In fact, the title of this article should be - " California calling OFF:....."

    There is a bit of spin here, Mr Tony Wood.

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  7. Doug Hutcheson

    Poet

    "the chair of Australian Climate Change Regulator, Chloe Munro". I can only hope that Chloe keeps her job, if Abbott is elected and wields the scalpel over anything to do with global warming or climate change. If only Malcolm Turnbull was in charge, I would have more confidence that the bleeding obvious science will be acted upon by our government, whichever colour that turns out to be.

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    1. Gerard Dean

      Managing Director

      In reply to Doug Hutcheson

      It doesn't matter who is in charge Mr Hutcheson, the madness is starting to crack and shatter. Within a few short years, you will hear people say, 'Climate change- what was that all about?"

      I cannot wait.

      Gerard Dean

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    2. Chris O'Neill

      Victim of Tony Abbotts Great Big New Tax

      In reply to Gerard Dean

      "Within a few short years, you will hear people say"

      Promises, promises.

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  8. Gerard Dean

    Managing Director

    Oh deary, deary me, another academic falls for the 'Greening California' angle.

    Almost every Australian who visits the US, (courtesy of JetA1 fossil fuel naturally) enters through California.

    Why is it that they fail to notice that Californians may talk about cutting emissions and energy use, but then they keep on sucking the earth's resources at a prodigious rate. They suck most of the water out of the Rocky mountains to fill their pools and grow oranges in a desert, they suck oil from the whole planet to power their SUV saturated interstates and they suck billions of watts of electricity that is generated from coal and oil and gas and water to power their air conditioned homes.

    All you have to do is open your eyes when next you visit California to realise their public pronouncements on energy savings are words, not action.

    When will this madness end.

    Gerard Dean
    Glen Iris

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    1. Mike Hansen

      Mr.

      In reply to Gerard Dean

      You started off OK Gerard when you pointed out that Californians are prodigious users of energy.

      It is the reason why an ETS there is so important.

      But your claim that the Californian ETS will have no effect is directly at odds with the claim made by yourself and your mates Bolt and Abbott that an ETS in Australia will devastate the economy.

      But given that you are a climate troll, I imagine consistency of argument would be an occupational hazard.

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    2. Alice Kelly
      Alice Kelly is a Friend of The Conversation.

      sole parent

      In reply to Gerard Dean

      Gerard, California is reducing its dependence on water from the Colorado river. Los Angeles alone by 35% from the colorado and bay-delta water. California is also reducing its dependance on coal, and increasing renewable energy towards a target of a third of the total needed. There seems to be a recognition of problems due to climate change in the state you mention, a preparedness to act, and the wanton abuses by californians as consumers of power and water you describe seems to be changing.
      http://newswatch.nationalgeographic.com/2013/06/26/california-cities-to-reduce-water-imports-from-the-colorado-river-and-bay-delta/
      http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/04/12/california-renewable-energy_n_848083.html
      http://switchboard.nrdc.org/blogs/nlong/california_public_power_leads.html

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    3. Neil Gibson

      Retired Electronics Design Engineer

      In reply to Mike Hansen

      How is both an ETS and massive amounts of wasted investment in "green energy " working for Germany in reducing emissions.
      According to preliminary findings of the Arbeitsgemeinschaft Energiebilanzen (AGEB), Germany has consumed far more energy in the first half of this year than a year earlier, up 4 percent.
      The AGEB writes that economic development played no role in the increased consumption.

      According to the AGEB, consumption of natural gas rose almost 10%. Black coal consumption, a major…

      Read more
  9. Ian L. McQueen

    Retired

    Hi People-

    I just reviewed much of the comments. Boy, people have had fun trying to slur me. It won't work, of course, but they had fun trying.

    Here is some reading material:

    http://wattsupwiththat.com/?s=16+YEARS+NO+WARMING

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2217286/Global-warming-stopped-16-years-ago-reveals-Met-Office-report-quietly-released--chart-prove-it.html

    http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/07/25/my-personal-path-to-catastrophic-agw-skepticism/#more-90436

    Have fun reading them. I know the reaction that will result. Those who have unchangeable ideas will not change them. The whole matter is like a Catholic priest trying to convince a Baptist minister of the truth of the doctrine of trans-substantiation. But it's been fun trying to bring some reality into the discussion.

    Best regards.

    IanM

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    1. Dianna Arthur
      Dianna Arthur is a Friend of The Conversation.

      Environmentalist

      In reply to Ian L. McQueen

      Nothing from any meteorological and related groups? BOM? Met Office? NASA? CSIRO? The Russian Meteorological Service?

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    2. Chris O'Neill

      Victim of Tony Abbotts Great Big New Tax

      In reply to Ian L. McQueen

      "The whole matter is like a Catholic priest"

      Yes, we know you're like a priest.

      "Those who have unchangeable ideas will not change them."

      Yes we know you have unchangeable ideas and will not change them.

      By the way, a cherry pick does not prove "global warming stopped 16 years ago".

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