There’s an anecdote in Tina Fey’s memoir Bossypants where Mother Fey hands her daughter two booklets to prepare her for her first period. On the (not-so) auspicious occasion of Fey’s menarche, the limitations of her preparation were well highlighted:
I knew from commercials that one’s menstrual period was a blue liquid that you poured like laundry detergent onto maxi pads … This wasn’t blue, so … I ignored it for a few hours.
This anecdote aptly and innocently highlights the problem with talking in euphemisms and innuendo. That girls – along with every single man watching those clichéd white-skirt confidence ads – gets a thoroughly shoddy education about just what’s going on between a women’s legs.
In recent days Carefree – purveyor of tampons and pads and who in the 1970s had the oh so disturbing tagline “Carefree tampons are so different … you forget what day it is” – has decided to play it frank and fearless.
In a new ad for panty liners, Carefree dared abandon those well-established feminine hygiene tropes and have laid it out bare – quite literally – with a naked woman daring to use the words “vagina” and “discharge”. All in the one ad (below).
While I’m going to highlight some of the limitations of considering this ad as revolutionary, it is nonetheless worthwhile to acknowledge its importance.
Only two years ago, Kotex in the US tried to use “vagina” in an ad. Three networks refused to air it; the ad had to be re-shot using the twee expression “down there”. In 2011, it was considered thoroughly groundbreaking when femcare company Always dared use a single red dot on a line drawing of a pad in a print advertisement. Way to scare the horses!
Truth be told I’ll take forthright over blue liquid, plush beavers and head-exploding euphemisms like “vajayjay” in a heartbeat.
Hell, if I can suitably compartmentalise my belief that this is yet another marketing stunt for free press, I’ll even go so far as to dub Carefree’s ad a triumph.
But I think the story is a little more interesting than that.
It’s an easy feminist argument to make that our culture uses euphemism and innuendo because we’re prudish, squeamish and all too prone to consider women’s bodies as aberrant. And sure, I’d be the first to argue that misinformation, bad information and cultural silence can only ever be bad for women. While there’s a feminist argument for supporting out and proud references to our vaginas, there’s equally a feminist argument not to blather on about it. To keep quiet, to hide our menstrual products and to sneak off to bathrooms without ever disclosing what goes on in there.
That equality is better served by not playing up the differences between men and women.
Frank dialogue about menstruation and discharge reminds both men and women that there are some fundamental biological differences between the sexes. While this might seem like a pretty obvious point, this is nonetheless the very point that underpins stereotypes about women’s moods, capabilities and limitations.
Blue liquid and euphemisms work because they peddle products to a knowing audience and exist as mildly befuddling background noise to the unknowing. By excluding explicit details, there’s a solid case that women have a better chance of being seen as equal and as not being limited by the perceived hijinks of their bloody, unpredictable bodies.
For me, our silence, stupid euphemisms and embarrassment are unequivocally sad indictments about our culture. But let’s not pretend there isn’t a downside to putting vaginas out there in all their perfectly normal discharge-y glory.
Dale Bloom
Analyst
After reading this I’m totally impressed. This is the type of article that should make Australians proud they invested so much in universities, and university staff should be equally proud they can produce students capable of such boldface statements as “Frank dialogue about menstruation and discharge reminds both men and women that there are some fundamental biological differences between the sexes.”
And also “Blue liquid and euphemisms work because they peddle products to a knowing audience and exist as mildly befuddling background noise to the unknowing.”
This article combines meticulous research and social science into a gold pot of feminist wisdom, and I award it the best article of the year.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaO69CF5mbY&feature=related
Ellie Price
logged in via LinkedIn
Dale misses the point (as usual) but Lauren raises an interesting question.
Should women be more open about "all that stuff"? On the one hand, hiding it and acting as though it is something to be ashamed of reinforces the idea that these functions are dirty, embarrassing, unclean and somehow broken. On the other hand, highlighting differences between the sexes reinforces the idea that those differences somehow make men and women more or less equal in certain aspects.
Perhaps the problem is not so much the discussion of "my monthly visitor" but the cultural association with impaired mental function or emotional outbursts. If we could change the perception that all women are raging hormonal monsters, or limp brained zombies, or weeping lumps of bloated sad sacks at "that time of the month" then perhaps there wouldn't be the same need to hide the reality of normal, healthy female bodies.
Dale Bloom
Analyst
Elle Price,
I now understand and agree.
Women need to make it known that they are WOMEN, and no different to men.
And without the help of feminists, they would never be able to make this known.
But enough of that. I've forgotten what I read in the article, and I'll have to read something else.
Regan Forrest
logged in via Twitter
Interesting point Ellie, and one that makes me want to broaden the discussion somewhat - I'm wondering if our cultural fear and loathing of hormones has its roots in Cartesian dualism?
I'm no philosophy expert, but my understanding of this school of thought is that the mind's full potential is held back by the messy limitations of our bodies. In this way of thinking, hormones would be cast as dangerous emanations from our bodies that interfere with the purity of our minds.
Maybe thinking about it in these terms can get us out of the gender politics rut - both men and women have hormones, after all.
Grendelus Malleolus
Senior Nerd
Elle,
Dale doesn't believe in points, unless they are about men. Points made by women or about women are obviously part of the global feminist plot to emasculate men, take their parental rights away and write them out of the history books. Discussions about menstruation are apparently code for "let the revolution begin sisters" Since apparently Dale feels he cannot let the discussion pass without a standard rant about the failure of academic institutions to discuss issues he really believes in…
Read moreDale Bloom
Analyst
Grendelus Malleolus
I understand.
Social science is not to be confused with science and research.
Instead, social science is used to make ideological statements.
I think I got that right.
Ian Ashman
Manager
Sad Troll
Sad because it does not a vagina or a penis...or a brain.
Dianna Arthur
Dianna Arthur is a Friend of The Conversation.
Environmentalist
Gays and lesbians are similarly told to stop shoving their lifestyles down people's throats whenever they have the temerity to discuss their views and lifestyles.
Anything to do with our genitalia is clearly too much for some. However, not discussing an integral part of being human has been practised for decades and has proven disastrous for many - we do not need a return to the absurdities of eras such as Victorian primness.
I may not agree with all I hear, see and read but defend the right for freedom of expression (thank you Voltaire).
Gil Hardwick
Anthropologist
It does not seem to me that these things are not being discussed, apart from a bit of evasive phrasing in some publically viewed TV advertising, quite to the contrary. It's discussed too much, over and over again from the same level of ignorance, shame, guilt and misinformation.
What we get is the same thing over and over and over again from pretty much the same people, apparently asserting their right to freedom of speech, and their right to raise issues that others find difficult, or offensive…
Read moreEmma Anderson
Artist and Science Junkie
"Gays and lesbians are similarly told to stop shoving their lifestyles down people's throats whenever they have the temerity to discuss their views and lifestyles."
For example.
Hi My Name is Adam and this is my husband Steve. We're going to the shops to get some groceries. Afterwards, we'll mow the lawn, watch some footy, and complain meaninglessly about the bills before Steve's mum comes over and tells me that I don't cook him enough pot roasts and am a slob. But Steve's dad will just sit there and drink beer with me.
Oops, it looks like Steve is about the stumble over. I think I'll grab his hand so he doesn't fall.
*drum roll*
OH NO WE FORGOT WE'RE NOT ALLOWED TO SHOW AFFECTION IN PUBLIC!!!
Emma Anderson
Artist and Science Junkie
Bodily functions are so routine there would appear to be no point discussing them, yes.
On the other hand it's also very important.
Why just an hour or so ago, on this website no less, I learned of the concept of a poo transplant complete with real feces being taken from one real person and inserted into another real person.
That is a very important procedure to people who need it.
Likewise, there are people whose bowels don't work. So they need to use a collostomy bag (is that what…
Read moreSeamus Gardiner
Citizen
Is there a word for menstrual discharge? Even a vernacular word? It seems to be that the process is so shrouded in euphemism and ignorance that we don't even have a word for it.
We call the discharge in our mouths saliva. We call the daily discharge from our bladders urine. We call the discharge in our eyes tears but for this there is no word. It's not strictly speaking just blood, as it contains endometrial lining... Menstrual flow sounds so clumsy. Surely demystifying starts with the language.
Damian Welbourne
GP
We do have a word for menstrual discharge. It's called menses.
Ian Ashman
Manager
Is there a word for your written discharges Sean?
Seamus Gardiner
Citizen
Yep,
Ill researched, embarrassing and trite. Mea culpa.
Debbie Hoad
student at University of Canberra
LOL!
As for mentrual discharge, despite the fact that it technically contains more than just blood, I mostly hear women call it blood, period, or flow.
Of course the women in the ad isn't referring to menstrual flow, but to the thin brownish (for some women barely noticeable) discharge that occurs at some point between periods. And that is just vaginal discharge. I don't think it's significant enough to have a euphemism of its very own.
Howard Williams
Lawyer
"Frank dialogue about menstruation and discharge reminds both men and women that there are some fundamental biological differences between the sexes"
Sorry Ms Rosewarne, but on what basis do you claim that there are "some fundamental biological differences between the sexes"? In particular, how does menstruation have anything to do with sex or gender? Is everyone who menstruates "female"? Is everyone who doesn't "male"? Surely you recognise that the gender binary is a socially- and linguistically…
Read moreDianna Arthur
Dianna Arthur is a Friend of The Conversation.
Environmentalist
A straight forward advert for personal hygiene products is simple common sense. You'd think.
We can mention the products and the process and parts they are for, but not mention if they are for men, women or calathumpians. Is that your point Howard Williams?
Well, makes as much sense as ads which feature (to outwardly appearance) women coyly referring to that time of the month and pouring blue ink while running on beaches and laughing.
Mariana Podesta-Diverio
Undergraduate Arts Student at University of Sydney
"Frank dialogue about menstruation and discharge reminds both men and women that there are some fundamental biological differences between the sexes. While this might seem like a pretty obvious point, this is nonetheless the very point that underpins stereotypes about women’s moods, capabilities and limitations."
So, um.. I'm pretty sure that here, Rosewarne is unpacking the thinking that influenced the use of language of this ad, and saying that this apparently revolutionary change (away from…
Read moreDale Bloom
Analyst
Mariana Podesta-Diverio,
I would agree.
Most people will nod off, or simply leave the room and go to the fridge during commercial break. Thankfully, the author is there to explain to people from a feminist perspective, what they didn’t bother to watch.
There is now no escaping it, no matter what people do, or what channel they turn to.
I think more people should buy whatever feminism is trying to peddle.
Catherine Ayres
PhD Candidate
I thought this was a great little article - although I'm not sure I agree that we should try to cover up biological differences between men and women. Isn't the whole point that it doesn't matter if you're menstruating or not? That our bodies don't define what we can achieve?
Anyway, I think an interesting parallel (though others will probably disagree) is the increasing frank discussion around men's erectile "problems" - particularly during the Tour de France! Even in my short lifetime these ads have changed from ridiculous footage of rockets not lifting off to quite well known men talking openly about what we're calling erectile "dysfunction".
Obviously there's the difference between periods being part of a healthy cycle and perceived erectile "problems" - but I do wonder if we feel the same way about these men's ads highlighting biological differences in a different way?
Yuri Pannikin
Director
Good comparison . . . in a sense. I don' think men give two hoots about another 'V' word, Viagra, or the ads for ED. Nor does anyone else it seems.
Wonder what the reaction would be to female sexual dysfunction ads (FSD), especially if a V word was used?
Catherine Ayres
PhD Candidate
That's true, Yuri. I guess I was just wondering if the author would have the same perspective about not emphasising biological difference if the ad was about some other 'male' problem. Maybe wet dreams or some other taboo topic for the fellas.
But it certainly seems that female 'V words' are far more offensive than male 'V (or any other letter) words'. I know it's in the US, but still, hilarious example:
http://www.businessinsider.com/michigan-lawmaker-banned-for-saying-the-word-vagina-2012-6
Yuri Pannikin
Director
Catherine, that is quite funny, as the Americans can be on these matters of course.
There aren't too many taboo topics for us Aussie fellas. Men are much more comfortable talking about, or at least joking about genital matters than women it seems to me - even in mixed company. We don't give a toss, er, two hoots. Not sure what women are comfortable discussing in their own company though.
But things are progressing, even if slowly. I blame Christianity and a few other religions. Perhaps not Hinduism though, where explicit carvings and statues of yoni and lingam were, and perhaps still are, de rigueur.
I think women should be encouraged to call a spade a spade :-).
Yuri Pannikin
Director
I shudder to think of what social upheaval might arise if someone actually used the word "vulva" -- which seems to me to have disappeared (or perhaps never arose) from our popular lexicon almost universally, except for arcane medical and anatomy texts. No problem with penis and testicle though.
You can be sure that in much of the US media at least, when they dare to mention vagina they mostly mean vulva.
'V' words indeed.
Gil Hardwick
Anthropologist
I really don't give a toss what people want to talk about, better to let things run their course and watch to see who is talking about what to whom, and as interestingly here who talks repetitively about the same thing over and over again.
The hook here lies in the quite wrong assumption that US advertising protocol is the same thing as 'our culture', whoever 'we' are and certainly what 'culture' might entail. Here, I do declare that I don't like the Americans or their crass materialism and fear…
Read moreDale Bloom
Analyst
Gil Hardwick
I think you are correct. Out of the last 19 articles, 3 were written by women, and 2 of the articles written by women were about women.
This has been one of the great success stories of feminism.
Grendelus Malleolus
Senior Nerd
Dale, have you attempted to sign on as an author, or perhaps pitched an idea to the editors? If you are concerned about the balance of material perhaps you need to stop whining and start writing.
Grendelus Malleolus
Senior Nerd
And are you actually worried that 15.78% of the last 19 articles were written be women? And that 10.5% were written about women? That seems remarkably precious.
Dale Bloom
Analyst
Grendelus Malleolus, Senior Nerd
On the contrary, this article is an example of feminism in action.
When women write something or talk about something, it is normally about themselves or other women, or they gossip and make things up. Feminism has succeeded in also developing women's whinging into an art form.
For example, health and hygiene standards have never been better for women in this country, but instead of being appreciative about that, feminists whinge about an ad from the US.
The development of whinging, combined with a desire to talk about oneself or other women, creates the illusion of constant, unending oppression for women, no matter what the situation, and no matter what is done for women.
So then feminists portray themselves as the only ones who can liberate women from their unending oppression.
Thankfully, this perpetuates feminism, (although society gradually disintegrates from the slow eroding of the human soul due to women’s whinging).
Grendelus Malleolus
Senior Nerd
Quod erat demonstrandum.
Dianna Arthur
Dianna Arthur is a Friend of The Conversation.
Environmentalist
I am both amused and dismayed that 2 men can set themselves up as arbiters on a topic which has direct impact on 50% of the population and any one else who has or has had a mother ;)
And only two women from "The Conversation" have written about menstruation (thanks for that info Dale) - clearly there is not enough discussion about so fundamental part of being human. Was very pleased to see another related topic on vibrators and the use of such, by whom, to whom and the original reasons.
https://theconversation.edu.au/vibrators-and-hysteria-how-a-cure-became-a-female-sexual-icon-8200
Grendelus Malleolus
Senior Nerd
Agree. And this totally ignores that fact that there is no requirement to read and comment on every single article published here. Dale appears to actively seek out anything with even distant potential for a feminist discusssion and is thus perhaps subjecting himself to confirmation bias.
Dale Bloom
Analyst
Dianna Art,
So out of the last 38 articles, only 4 were from female authors, and 3 of those authors wrote about women and their bodies.
As I have said previously, women’s preoccupation with themselves is one of the major success stories of feminism (if it can be called a success story).
Grendelus Malleolus
Senior Nerd
Dale you are a lousy researcher - 38 articles in a format that publishes many a day is a small sample indeed. you need to look at a larger sample to validate your claim of a preoccupation.
I looked at the last 300 articles published and found that of those 300, 37 were written by women (co-authored by a man in two cases). Of those 37 articles I found the same 3 that you did about "women and their bodies".
1% of all the articles published and 8% of all articles written by women.
And for this you rant?
A far more interesting exercise would be an analysis of your comments and see what proportion of those are complaining in some form or another about women - that does appear to be your preoccupation
I dare say, sample size is everything.
Dale Bloom
Analyst
Grendelus Malleolus, Senior Nerd
You are correct as always.
The way women’s health and personal hygiene products are advertised in some US advertisements shown on TV, is perhaps the greatest problem now facing the world.
Thankfully, there are feminist prepared to speak out about it, and bring it to the attention of other women so they can feel oppressed.
This is a tremendous achievement for feminism, and I look forward to feminism’s next great whinge.
Peter Ormonde
Peter Ormonde is a Friend of The Conversation.
Farmer
Yes I saw the ad in question. I was shocked. Appalled. Aghast. That such a nice looking young woman would use the V word on national television... at 9.30pm on a Sunday. My heavens the kiddies could have been watching. Or my granny.
So, feeding the glowing embers of indignation I whipped off a quick note to the broadcasting standards mob letting them know how I felt about the use of a v word right there in my own lounge room.
Just shocking. I am still shocked. No longer aghast but still slightly appalled. I may never recover.
Talk about glass ceilings!!!
Reinhard Dekter
logged in via Facebook
If you can't even mention a physical, empirical difference between men and women for fear of unwarranted discrimination, how much liberty do you really have? That's like saying it's OK to be a black guy but you should wear white makeup so that no one can tell.
It's the classic feminist syndrome of mistaking the distinction between equality and identity. Equality does not mean being able to have and do all the same things as someone else. I cannot have and do the same things as the CEO of HBOS, or a plumber, or a mother. Equality means to have the same dignity of being, of having the identity of a human being fully responsible and free to make all decisions in the way one believes best serves one's interests. Liberty is not served by hiding the truth because that would mean living a lie, and making decisions based on a lie is not freedom but slavery.
Bob Aragon
Student
May I point out, most simply, that we ARE talking about an advertisement.
No matter how many times we offer defenses of the role of television in impressionable young minds, blather, blather, blather, it is STILL just an advertisement.
I would offer this thought: an advertisement is NOT... N. O. T. the most appropriate place, method or source to learn about the functions of one's own body. Ergo, may I propose that this represents a diversion from the true issue: failure of parents to adequately educate their own children.
Were children so educated, they too could mirthfully smirk at blue liquids and other euphemisms.
And, yes, if you are so determined, I concede I am blaming mothers once again. <insert-a-chorus-of-rolling-eyes>
Eric Huttlestone
Public
Why all so serious, is it normal for such a basic and natural function to stir such intense and emotional response... what are we getting off on!
But hey, I'm just a bloke and it's probably just your time of the month.
Ok, I hear you, this is supposed to be a serious debate, but really, chill.
I once informed a mixed audience of friends I drove a Vulva, no pun intended... but I was congratulated!
Louise Murphy Thomas
logged in via Facebook
This is an email I sent last week, just my thoughts on this Add, it's got nothing to do with what can be said on TV
********
I don't know any other way to start this email, than by saying, Enough, is Enough, IS ENOUGH!
While watching a great series we watch every week, goes to "Add" break, and what is in your face, "Discharge and Vaginas" ! Seriously ?
I've absolutely had enough of Carefree's advertisements on these products.
Read moreI am in no means a prude, BUT, there is a time and place for…
Dianna Arthur
Dianna Arthur is a Friend of The Conversation.
Environmentalist
How embarrassing for the men folk. Having to endure information about the vagina. We all know how fearful men are of vaginas and being reminded of them in the privacy of the family home - must've been very painful for the poor things.
Makes me wonder how men ever manage to get through an issue of Ralph/Zoo/Penthouse - all those wide-open vaginas....
Oh, the horror.
Next people will start discussing where babies come from. Then cats and dogs will start living together and our entire universe will explode.
Peter Ormonde
Peter Ormonde is a Friend of The Conversation.
Farmer
Yes Ms A, it is bad enough to be constantly confronted by snorting references to our inadequacies in the bedroom (where these appalling things so obviously and rightfully belong) but to find mention of such business sandwiched between slices of Bruce Willis saving the world in a most blokey kinda way, we have the very plasma itself snorting our ineptitude and bringing us back to earth with a sudden thud. Oh the shame of it all.
So here I am riding a surging tsunami of testosterone - albeit acquired vicariously via scripts and stuntmen - only to the confronted - and yes challenged - by some innocent slip of a girl spewing facts about vaginas and fluid dynamics in our very faces.
A cold shower indeed ... and here I was about to save the free world and Life As We Know It. This is not how it should be... not what it should be at all. More admiration and awe - less facts and reality please.
And you ALL have these things I hear.
Louise Murphy Thomas
logged in via Facebook
As I stated above the email, it's got nothing to do with mentioning certain words, ANY words, it's about Enough being Enough.
I've discussed many a topic with males, and I think most males today are very well educated on what's happening with the female body, how could they not be!
It's when it's shoved in your face with no warning that I think is rude and wrong, I should be able to pick the company and the time I discuss these things with, not made to feel uncomfortable with male company I…
Read moreDianna Arthur
Dianna Arthur is a Friend of The Conversation.
Environmentalist
Ms Murphy Thomas
Both men and women require factual information about each other's bodies.
Manufacturers need to sell gasp, horror, feminine hygiene products.
There is nothing shameful about urination, defecation, menstruation or ejaculation. The better informed and educated, the better we can communicate, else we go back to the days when even piano legs were deemed unsightly.
You can be outraged all you like. And you can complain vociferously about a woman mentioning the word "vagina" and, worse; "vaginal discharge".
However, the rest of us will have a good laugh (at your expense) and watch our DVD's of "True Blood" or "Game of Thrones" - both which display all kinds of bodily fluids in a most entertaining way.
And a huge number of men, maybe even men you know will continue to watch their porn on the internet. While you fear for their sensitive natures.
Dianna Arthur
Dianna Arthur is a Friend of The Conversation.
Environmentalist
I am sure big man Bruce never had to stop to take a leak while out saving the world.
You have much to live up to.
Peter Ormonde
Peter Ormonde is a Friend of The Conversation.
Farmer
Much to live up to? Tell me about it! Leaping about from rooftop to tank all night, hanging one-armed from my chopper to scoop up a congaline of heroines every Thursday... and the complaints from the neighbours... I could go on and on and on. Being super is no easy task in a small town. And the prices demanded by the CWA for a simple mask and cape... absolutely extortionate!
Now I'd be pretty sure that Bruce has no bodily functions whatsoever ... beyond of course his obviously stallionesque…
Read moreDianna Arthur
Dianna Arthur is a Friend of The Conversation.
Environmentalist
Beyond imagination, I'll warrant.
Those CWA women - not to be trusted - I think its all those sponge cakes, gorn to their 'eads all that sugar icing - erodes the higher moral functions or something like that.
And now I understand the reason for "gutteral grunting" - can sleep well at night from now on.
As to being caught at increasingly shorter distances.... and I do understand not every man can be the mighty Bruce; there are hygiene product companies that sell very discrete little items…
Read morePeter Ormonde
Peter Ormonde is a Friend of The Conversation.
Farmer
At last I see how Bruce's bulge appears on screen as so much larger than life.. increasingly immense through Die Hards one through eight! ... a clump of delicately suggested hygiene products to hide a nasty secret ... and here was me booking myself in for enhancement surgery again!
I must admit I was fully 27 before my veil of ignorance was lifted by nappy adverts. I understood so little as a young man, sheltered by the advert free ABC and the Bible... which sought to explain everything, yet disclosed so little of real significance in this regard.
In future I believe we will look at advertisements as educational tools by which we come to better understand ourselves and how dreadfully leaky we all are.