Up to a quarter of seaweed species in southern Australian waters could face extinction due to global warming.
New research suggests seaweed communities in the south are becoming more similar to former communities in the north, with several temperate species moving south.
The researchers studied a database of more than 20,000 herbarium records since the 1940s and found changes in seaweed communities in the Indian and Pacific Oceans. These changes were found to be consistent with rapid warming in past decades.
Many ocean fauna survive on seaweed and, as a result, the possible extinction of seaweed could have wide-ranging implications.
Doug Cotton
IT Manager
I wouldn't worry too much about the seaweed now that, with the October 2011 figures released, there is clear cut evidence that the world is starting to cool. First it was Trenberth's curved trend (with a maximum in 2006) and now Spencer's accurate sinusoidal trend since 1979 has also passed a maximum.
October 2011 was only 0.11 degrees above the mean for the whole period since 1979 as can be seen on Dr Spencer's plot. Both his and Trenberth's plots are reproduced here http://climate-change-theory.com for those who are interested and perhaps wondering how the IPCC got it all wrong.
Jeremy Hall
PhD student
OK, I'm curious about this Doug: how (or why?) did you come to your opinion - that the kind of thing on your climate-change-theory site is correct and sites like skepticalscience.com aren't?
The difference in credibility between peer-reviewed science and the stuff your page cites is not up for debate... you linked to
http://greenhouse.geologist-1011.net - and called it an "excellent article"
If you can't tell that stuff is rubbish (I can, and I'm pretty low on the physics food-chain) then, well, you've got a right to your opinion - but not to expect others to believe you.
Doug Cotton
IT Manager
Jeremy, it's a little hard to judge how genuine your question is, but I'll grant you the benefit of the doubt. You would have to temporarily put aside your closed-minded opinion that peer-reviewed literature is always so credible. You might start with the Climategate criticism at the foot of my home page.
You would have to look closely at the curved trends in the plots at top and bottom of that home page, and note the correspondence in recent years, even though these were produced independently…
Read moreJeremy Hall
PhD student
Thanks - I wasn't trying to get at you, if it's your interpretation of what you've read that's fine. I try to be open-minded - I'm well aware that the scientific literature is full of errors and inaccuracies that occur as people tackle complex and poorly understood problems, of which climate change is certainly one.
But... in my opinion, a near-consensus in the climate science community is the best thing we have to go on. Most folks (me included) don't have the inclination/ability to become as…
Read moreJeremy Hall
PhD student
So most of the pages you referred to are trying to say that the science behind the greenhouse effect is wrong. It looks like we disagree on the worth of the current peer review system - but it's not involved here. That physics was worked out 80-100 years ago, and the 'arguments' in favour can be found in any advanced-undergrad physical chemistry textbook (eg Atkins & de Paula, any of the 8 or so editions). That is fairly basic stuff for an expert, but the average layman would need a year or so…
Read moreDoug Cotton
IT Manager
You need to understand the history of that physics which you say "was worked out 80-100 years ago." It is the very physics referred to in Section 2.2 at http://greenhouse.geologist-1011.net which you brushed aside as "rubbish" but which is in fact correct because the original "physics" was not even in line with new theories that were already put forward at the time. It was certainly not in line with what Fourier said about heat transfer.
Yet this fault-ridden "physics" is in fact the very basis…
Read moreJeremy Hall
PhD student
Section 2.2... that's the one entitled "Aethereal Misunderstanding versus Subatomic Heat Transfer"??
As someone once said:
"That [greenhouse effect] physics was worked out 80-100 years ago, and the 'arguments' in favour can be found in any advanced-undergrad physical chemistry textbook (eg Atkins & de Paula, any of the 8 or so editions)"... "It would certainly take a lot of effort to reproduce it here, which is why there's no point in arguing physics on the internet.
Should laypeople be required to do all that study to have informed opinions? If not, should they believe the vast majority of experts, (despite the occasional dissenting opinion) as most folks do when taking, say, medical advice? Or should they believe the tiny minority?"
Doug Cotton
IT Manager
"Arguments in favour" do not constitute science. Science should be confirmed by empirical evidence in experiments which are repeatable. Prof Woods showed in 1909 there was no physical evidence that carbon dioxide caused warming. His experiment is repeatable and has been repeated. Now the atmosphere (with an even increasing rate of increase of carbon dioxide) is providing the best evidence yet (for a period of about eight years now) that carbon dioxide is having no effect. There has been absolutely no accumulation of thermal energy at sea surface levels in that time.
Doug Cotton
IT Manager
Nobody, "lay" or otherwise is "required" to do anything. Does having a degree in Physics and studying it for 40 odd years qualify me as "lay" or otherwise?
The reasons why those arguments are wrong has been on this page of my original site for months http://earth-climate.com/CaseAgainst.html
Jeremy Hall
PhD student
I put 'arguments' in quote marks above to emphasise that standard textbooks don't really contain arguments - they contain accepted logical conclusions based on years of experimental evidence (i.e. science!)
I'm not going to argue greenhouse effect physics - I believe what I've read in science textbooks, you believe the sort of thing on your site. They're clearly contradictory, so one of us is in error. Not much point taking it further...
http://xkcd.com/386/
I'm certainly not convinced why I, a non-climate expert, should believe anything except the collective (near-unanimous) opinion of the specialists.
In the end, of course, the debate doesn't affect the facts - only how we choose to face them.
http://xkcd.com/164/
Doug Cotton
IT Manager
I'll leave you with some facts ... and you can choose "how to face them" ...
The curved trend here (based on nearly 23 years of data) has passed a maximum and the curve is starting to decline. http://www.drroyspencer.com/latest-global-temperatures/
The above linked plot also shows that October 2011 was only 0.11 deg.C above the mean for the whole period from 1979.
Sea levels have also been falling for nearly four years http://www.real-science.com/sea-level-falling-2-5-mmyear-2007
The year 2011 is shaping up to be cooler than 2003, so there has been no net accumulation of thermal energy at sea surface level since then. http://earth-climate.com/2003-2011.jpg