The Labor caucus is still thinking about leadership, but Christine Milne and the Greens have given up spectacularly on Labor and Julia Gillard.
In her shock tearing up of the Greens' alliance with the government, Milne said bluntly, “the Australian community is saying they will support an Abbott government.”
Milne is now totally focused on trying to retain the Greens' grip on the Senate balance of power, under threat if there is a strong vote for the conservatives at the election.
Like Labor, the Greens, in their own much smaller sphere, are under acute stress. There is a feeling they may have peaked, and that Milne will not have the same vote-pulling power as their former leader Bob Brown, the radical uncle of Australian politics.
The Greens won’t do anything to bring down the government – Milne affirmed they would guarantee supply and would not support a no-confidence motion. But they are competing hard with Labor for the voters on the left, with a stinging attack on the government’s alleged pandering to the miners.
“Labor, Liberal and Nationals have made their choice,” Milne declared. “It is for the big miners and the green light to environmental destruction.”
She reinforced recent attacks made by critics ranging from Kevin Rudd to the opposition on the 2010 Gillard-Swan deal with the big miners.
Fanning suspicions of dirty pool, she said:
What is going on, when a prime minister and a treasurer get in the back room with three mining companies and stitch up a deal and … say that the elected representatives of that country can’t amend that deal, because it is a private deal in a back room … Even treasury have said they didn’t know what was stitched up in that back room.
What difference will the stand by Milne and the Greens make for Gillard?
It adds to the feeling of instability abroad in Labor, just when Gillard needs some order. The first statement from her office was minimal. “This is a matter for Christine Milne and the Greens", a spokesman said. “We will always be the party that puts jobs, growth and work first”.
Treasurer Wayne Swan said Labor and the Greens are “cut from a different cloth”.
“Labor doesn’t pander to special interests on our left or on our right,” he said.
This just undermined the original justification for the alliance in the first place.
The government has long worn the flak of being too close to the Greens. Some in Labor, including Kevin Rudd, believe the government should never have become formally entwined with the Greens.
But, as the relationship ends, Gillard is not the one in control. It’s Milne who ended the agreement, while squarely heaping the blame for the fracture on the government.
“What has become manifestly clear is that Labor by its actions has walked away from its agreement with the Greens and into the arms of the big miners,” she said.
“By choosing the big miners, the Labor government is making it clear to all that it no longer has the courage or the will to work with the Greens on a shared agenda in the national interest.”
Milne told the prime minister only shortly before publicly serving the divorce papers. Just to rub in the point, she declared “my door is open” to negotiations on pieces of legislation. The minor player was talking as though she was the dominant partner.
Any advantage that Gillard might reap from the new distance is countered by the fact that she is the dumped party. It’s another example of events running out of her control.
Simon Black
logged in via Twitter
Further proof that Gillard really is dead in the water. The only support she has now comes from the AWU/Ludwig/Howes. Shows how much they really care about workers when they seem happy for Abbott to be PM if it means propping up their little puppet Gillard for a few more months.
Amazing what lows Gillard has taken the ALP too since she became leader. Lost 30 odd seats in the last election and looks like losing another 30 in the next one.
Mike Hansen
Mr
Very superficial Simon - barracking masquerading as analysis.
John Howard lost his own seat in a landslide in against the LNP in 2007. Does that mean that Howard and his backers did not really care about LNP policy or his electors?
Simon Black
logged in via Twitter
The Libs had no choice. The ALP has a clear choice. The electorate have told them in no uncertain terms what they need to do if they want their support again. They didn't listen last February and have been paying the price ever since.
Mike Hansen
Mr
What choice? You have been reading too much of Grattan's Ruddoration. Reinstate Rudd because Liberal voters prefer him to Gillard? That would be like the Libs dumping Abbott because Turnbull is popular among Labor voters. You must have a very short memory - as soon as Rudd was reinstated, the Libs would roll out the "Kevin the Lemon" ads again.
Steve Birdsall
Retired
Absolutely true. Somebody's disastrous miscalculation - or the devious machinations of spivs like Mark Arbib - put Gillard in a hole she won't climb out of. She and Rudd are history . . . for better or worse, they're both poison and can only help the conservatives. The walking dead like Slipper and Thomson only add to the mess It's a pity, because average Australians will be the poorer for all this.
Simon Black
logged in via Twitter
Gee, they were a roaring success last time, weren't they? The ALP ended up with a 13 seat majority. Almost pointless having this discussion as Gillard is gone. She is simply dead in the water.
Kim Darcy
Analyst
"That would be like the Libs dumping Abbott because Turnbull is popular among Labor voters."
Well given that the Libs need to attract some ALP voters from the last election, switching to Turnbull could make sense, if it seemed like Abbott was failing on this score. But all the opinion polls so far suggest Abbott is doing fine on this point. Mind you, Beazley looked equally solid in early 2001. Things change very quickly once the election is immanent.
John Robert Davidson
Retired engineer
This is just another example of the shallow analysis we have been getting from the commenteriate. Christine's move is a win/win for Labor and the Greens leading up to the election. Yet all we get from the Gratton's of the world is simplistic nonsense based on an obsession with conflict.
Peter Ormonde
Peter Ormonde is a Friend of The Conversation.
Farmer
Michelle,
Can I suggest you have a read of Sunanda Creagh's rather excellent piece in The Conversation about what Milne and the Greens actually have said. Far from "serving divorce papers" ... continued support on budget bills and confidence motions ... I wonder what has actually changed other than a more robust argument on key issues that will see some daylight emerge between Labor and the Greens.
Totally outclassed mate. By facts rather than gallery gossip and speculation.
Take a year off ... read, get a tan and put some daylight between yourself and the gallery hacks
Marilyn Shepherd
pensioner
Absolutely, Michelle is too used to reading what she thinks is there and hearing what she thinks she has heard.
Paul Howes is a shocker though, his members petty little country destroying jobs are not the only thing we have to worry about.
I have said since the beginning that Gillard is the worst PM of my lifetime, I stick to that with news that again kids are trying to kill themselves in her rotten refugee prisons.
alfred venison
records manager (public sector)
and isn't that just what rudd said would happen, when he was bumped off, that they would lurch to the right on refugees? what rudd failed to mention, but i guess it was too obvious to mention in the circumstances, was that they'd give the multinational miners everything & australia nothing. either by collusion or by incompetence its a shocking outcome, she should fall for that one at least. -a.v.
Peter Ormonde
Peter Ormonde is a Friend of The Conversation.
Farmer
Don't get sucked into this idea that Gillard calls the shots on these matters Alfred.
The appalling position on refugees and the MRRT was the price demanded by the NSW right for getting rid of Kevin ... poll-driven cowardice and gutlessness - the hallmarks of NSW Labor. It reeks of them.
If Julia had been half smart - and had studied a bit more history than law - she would have been up in that Senate chamber weilding a chainsaw ... lopping off the heads of the NSW Right who thought they owned…
Read morealfred venison
records manager (public sector)
be assured i'm in no danger of being sucked in to the idea that gillard calls the shots.
quite the opposite. i see gillard as a tool of the alp right which used her ambition to effect the removal of a reforming pm who wouldn't budge on the mrrt which upset the miners & murdoch. they were the first to cave in the crisis over the mrrt & conspire against the national interest.
in my mind gillard is & always will be the witting or unwitting (it doesn't matter) tool of the alp right wing, which responded to pressure from mining multinationals & murdoch, called her in & trusted to her ambition to do the rest.
in short, as news now confirms, in her first official act prime minister gillard sold her country short & enriched multinationals at australia's expense. this was no coincidence. i despise her. i miss rudd every day - for two years & some - where is my prime minister - the one stolen from me by the filthy rich, their cronies & their cronies tool? -a.v.
Peter Ormonde
Peter Ormonde is a Friend of The Conversation.
Farmer
An ugly business all up Alfred ... almost enough to forget what a Tony/Joe/Barnmaby alternative would be like.
But I don't share your enthusiasm for Kevin ... not after that "fair suck of the sauce bottle" business. If he wanted to emphasise his distance from your average punter nothing could have done it better than his own expression. No one could have said it better or louder.
Clever chap - great eye for detail - would have been an outstanding treasurer - but not a leader, never a team player and awkward when out pressing the flesh.
I've always had a problem with messiahs... no doubt it'll see me frying for all eternity.
alfred venison
records manager (public sector)
she sold out. if she had a skerrick of socialist ideology in her she would have stuck with rudd til he got the mrrt through, but she doesn't. and her enablers wouldn't stand for it either, of course, they picked their tool carefully. why do think tanner resigned after? was it because australia had got one over multinational capital and was financing a brave new future for itself from the proceeds & labor was set for a generation? or was it because australia had been successfully stood over by multinational capital with the help of murdoch & a shallow careerist? -a.v.
George Michaelson
Person
What, in practice has actually changed, in voting intentions in the house? According to Milne, nothing. They won't block supply, and they would always have voted against any other bill on principle, if they felt they had to.
So, this is a statement of no change, sold as something more substantive.
Milne ordering her lower-house whip into line, and forcing a fall of government with Brandt/Wilkie walking the walk, is substance. until then, this is posture.
Steve Birdsall
Retired
"Labor doesn’t pander to special interests on our left or on our right,” Wayne Swan said.
What a joke. I never liked Rudd and I understand that we elected Labor, not him, but I still found his demise disgusting and unnecessary. No surprise that it seems to have backfired spectacularly and we are in line for at least one term of Abbott, Bishop, Robb, Andrews, Truss, Brandis, Mirabella and god knows who else.
Peter Ormonde
Peter Ormonde is a Friend of The Conversation.
Farmer
Barnaby Joyce for Foreign Affairs!!!!
alfred venison
records manager (public sector)
barnaby joyce? you should be so lucky; how about cory bernardi for foreign minister? seriously. -a.v.
Peter Ormonde
Peter Ormonde is a Friend of The Conversation.
Farmer
I'd be slotting Cory into something like Status of Women, Alfred - although with the overflowing talent pool on offer god knows where he could end up... maybe Social Security... but yes he does have some flair for diplomacy ... so much ability, so few opportunities.
alfred venison
records manager (public sector)
as foreign minister he'd be ex offcio patron of the australia netherlands far right friendship society & correspondence club. -a.v.
Riddley Walker
.
Video of Milne's Press club speech
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXNAU1zmFUo
text:
http://greensmps.org.au/content/news-stories/christine-milne-addresses-national-press-club
Milne is an excellent speaker, does not mince words, is honest and forthright in her views. It's a pity there are not more like her in the Parliament.
Mike Hansen
Mr
Great speech by Milne.
Grattan has linked to it but here it is again.
http://christine-milne.greensmps.org.au/content/news-stories/christine-milne-addresses-national-press-club
Grattan flunked the "mysogny speech" and she has flunked this one as well. Give it up Michelle - you have a tin ear.
Mike Hansen
Mr
If you read the articles on climate change from the scientists that write for The Conversation, then read the following extract from Milne's speech.
"And don't we know it in Australia. People have suffered from the extreme weather events of this summer - the horrific bushfires in my home state of Tasmania and NSW and Victoria and the devastating floods returning in Qld and the heat waves across the country.
Refusing to acknowledge the link between the intensity of these extreme weather events…
Read moreMichael Shand
Michael Shand is a Friend of The Conversation.
Software Tester
Great comment
Peter Sommerville
Scientist & Technologist
Actually, Michael, Mike Hansen's comments are rather silly. The assertion that recent weather events and fires are somehow linked to "anthropogenic climate change" is not substantiated by anything other than the hysterics of politicians and others, and is not even supported by the majority of climate scientists.
Michael Shand
Michael Shand is a Friend of The Conversation.
Software Tester
Then you dont understand what you are talking about - every weather even is now happening in an environment that is almost a degree warmer - thats a lot more energy in the system
To suggest that you can poinnt to weather events and say this one was and this one wasnt global warming shows gross ignorance
Peter Sommerville
Scientist & Technologist
I suggest you read your own words. Michael. You contradict yourself.
Milne's assertions are nonsensical speculations, without any scientific justification. As are yours.
I am not the one who doesn't understand. Cheers.
Chris O'Neill
Telecommunications Engineer
"I am not the one who doesn't understand."
And yet you are the one who made the citation-free assertion:
"recent weather events and fires are somehow linked to "anthropogenic climate change" .. is not even supported by the majority of climate scientists.
Michael Shand
Michael Shand is a Friend of The Conversation.
Software Tester
Funny, cos a paper from Andrew Glikson of ANU seems to disagree with you.
Hmmm who to trust, professor from respected Uni or some guy on the internet who claims to be a technologist?
Both seem equally credible right?
Fred Pribac
logged in via email @internode.on.net
In my opinion Ms Gratton is confirming that there is an inverse relationship between frequency of publication and quality of analysis.
Peter Ormonde
Peter Ormonde is a Friend of The Conversation.
Farmer
Spot on Fred ...
Generally less is more although I'm starting to realise that with Michelle less is less and thank goodness for that. Does this woman actually have anything useful or insightful to say?
Is the Conversation contractually obliged to dumb itself down like this?
John Phillip
John Phillip is a Friend of The Conversation.
Grumpy Old Man
Pull out a Kleenex and harden up there, Pete. It's a good thing thing that TC has brought in authours alternative views - makes a nice change from the onslaught of the pandering lefties that dominate this site. If you dont believe me, just read the fauning crap that John Keane worte about his special lunch with saint julian ass ange. :)
Peter Ormonde
Peter Ormonde is a Friend of The Conversation.
Farmer
John,
Nah I'm not sobbing because there's something I disagree with - nor am I saying Grattan is flagrantly pro-Abbott or anti-Gillard or a closet Green. I'm not a one eyed barracker and I enjoy a decent argument.
It's just that rather than analysis and policy we're getting polls, gossip and speculation ... the sort of trivia and dross that preoccupies the press gallery and the entertainment media.
Now if Michelle wanted to do a piece demonstrating Tony Abbott's terrific attitudes to women or tracing Julia's contribution to the use of English or whatever Kevin Rudd speaks that would be interesting and we could have a decent think and a stoush... but this sort of content-free scuttlebutt just isn't worth discussing.
It's like waking up on Xmas morning - seeing a present from The Conversation - tearing open the wrapping only to find an empty box. Waaaaaaah!
Alan John Hunter
Retired
Couldn't agree more Peter, as I finished reading this my reaction was "is that It", what a shallow time waster.
Robert McDougall
Small Business Owner
What i take from this is the Greens keep to their word and dont spit the dummey and take their bat and ball home (or run away from press gatherings, or roll over for a lovely tummy tickle by resources companies).
Perhaps we do need a term of Coalition Government so that the general public (who tends to have short memories anyway) can see that both the major parties are just as bad as each other and despite protestations really have no intention about acting in the National Interest when it conflicts with their own political interests.
Meanwhile the most unlikely people are forming associations with the Greens, e.g. farmers (who woulda thunk it?) So it seems the Greens may attract votes away from Labor who have swung too far to the right, votes from the Nationals, who have abandoned their constituencies re CSG and votes from the Liberals who are being run by the Gina set.
cue the rabbid wailing and gnashing of teeth about those insidious loopie fringers.
alfred venison
records manager (public sector)
well, barry o'farrell has agreed to put limits on csg extraction within two kilometers of residences, wineries and stud farms (!). if he sticks to his guns, and isn't removed by his party a good gov't that lost its way, this will put a dent in the greens appeal in nsw at least. -a.v.
Robert McDougall
Small Business Owner
unfortunately he was dragged kicking and screaming into it, don't forget the impact of their failed "gateway" promises.
takver takvera
Journalist and Editor at Indymedia
mmm... I hear most farmers in NSW are trying to work out how many grapevines or horses does it require to be a cluster to get the 2km distance. And many a farmer and rural residence is concerned over quality of streams and bore water for drinking and agriculture which Coal Seam Gas fields may still impact. Barry O'Farrell fails to adequately address this strongly felt community concern over groundwater contamination or changes in water table caused by CSG mining.
alfred venison
records manager (public sector)
for sure! there isn't much sincerity in it on barry's part. -a.v.
alfred venison
records manager (public sector)
good. i'm glad farmers & rural residents remain sceptical & are considering all options available to them, up to & including grape vines & horses at 2km. good on them: test his authenticity, his sincerity. -a.v.
Dale Bloom
Analyst
Now the female leader of the Greens won’t even support the female Prime Minister.
The chances that the female Prime Minister will have much support from female voters at the next election appears less and less likely in time.
The Labor party can’t even use the excuse that their declining popularity is because of so-called “misogyny”.
About the only people who might support Gillard could be red haired city-based feminist layers, but I don’t think they count for much.
Jeremy cavanagh
Engineer
What is it about Michelle Grattan? She really wears her partisanship on her sleeve. Gillard can do no right and Abbott only does alright and if she is forced by glaring evidence to call attention to his lies she instead gently seeks to correct his manifest defects with a wet slap to his wrist.
As has been pointed out by other people here the Greens are distancing themselves but they are still committed to voting with the government on supply, confidence, etc That is not a 'dumping' no matter how…
Read moretakver takvera
Journalist and Editor at Indymedia
Hi Jeremy, The quote was made by Michelle out of context. It was part of an answer by Senator Milne to a Question from Paul Bongiorno. Here is what Milne said:
"But certainly in terms of the Greens what I've said is that I can read the public sentiment and the polls as well as anybody else and it seems apparent that the Australian community is saying that they will support an Abbott government. That is the fact of the matter. That is not what I think is the best thing for the country quite clearly. In fact, I think it would be a disaster for the country. But if that is what people do, The Greens are absolutely essential as the bulwark in the Senate against the extremes of an Abbott Government."
It comes at 34:55 in the full youtube video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXNAU1zmFUo
Jeremy cavanagh
Engineer
takver,
Thankyou.
Grattan gave no indication of Milne's by quoting this context free and without reference. As if Milne would support Abbott.
The Press Gallery/MSM either want Abbott to win or are being led by the nose on an agenda that wants to see Abbott lie his way to the Lodge. Grattan seems to fully subscribe to Abbott in the Lodge with no questions asked.
Milne is seeking to set out a very defensive role if Abbott does lie his way to the Lodge by seeking to stop Abbot's band of…
Read moreLeigh Burrell
Young and Naive Redheads - Special rates for union officials. No records kept.
“the Australian community is saying they will support an Abbott government.”
The customary response to this realisation would be a gracious acknowledgement of defeat. If this deranged woman and her loopy followers aren't comfortable with democracy what exactly do they want instead?
Mike Hansen
Mr
Are you saying that Tony Abbott, his party and followers who have never accepted the democratic election of the Gillard government are "deranged and loopy"?
It would certainly explain your comment.
Leigh Burrell
Young and Naive Redheads - Special rates for union officials. No records kept.
I've no idea what you're crapping on about. Tony Abbott graciously congratulated Gillard for being restored to office.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjSdnW_oC3Y
Garry Baker
researcher
Milne is looking at the long game: This years elections, in the full knowledge voters are truly fed up with both of the major parties, insofar as each of these tribes are largely populated by mental pygmies. Indeed they are tired old instruments for running the country in this rapidly changing world, so we might just see a shift to protest voting - That is, vote for any party, other than the ALP or the LIB. Indeed, folks are thinking a bunch of drovers dogs couldn't be any worse than either of…
Read moreRiddley Walker
.
I disagree with "As plain dumb as they are at times," - the Greens seem to me to be the only intelligent Party on the block at the moment. I cannot think of any issue on which the Greens have been "dumb". They consistently maintain a high level of integrity in policy outcomes, and manage the realpolitik with a high level of skill.
Garry Baker
researcher
Hi Riddley, by this I mean they are somewhat dislocated from everyday life in the 21st century. ie: The average Fred can only afford a certain level of green-ness, and if he is pushed too hard on a lifestyle change then they have lost his support. After all, it's a discussion about voter numbers, not an idealistic world
This is a basic problem the greens have to confront - a compromise - where the populace gets a bit greener by the month, which means real world solutions have to be found - and those real world solutions, have to be affordable, logical, to a degree where Fred can see the benefits for him and his family.
Though they seem to be an honest mob, consistent with their views, which is a massive contrast to the Neanderthals running the majors, who don't seem to give a toss about building a decent "society".
Leigh Burrell
Young and Naive Redheads - Special rates for union officials. No records kept.
Dumb ideas from the extreme Greens:
Open borders
Free flights from Asia for anyone claiming asylum
Phase out coal mining
$40 carbon price
No new dams
Decriminalise all illegal drug use, free needles and injecting rooms
Public ownership of pretty well everything
Licensing for journalists
Extraterrestrial aliens extincting themselves by damaging their environment
One world government
Mike Hansen
Mr
I see Leigh gets his politics from Andrew Bolt or is it Piers Akerman.
John Phillip
John Phillip is a Friend of The Conversation.
Grumpy Old Man
Leigh, I wouldnt call them dumb ideas. The Greens have long held a core belief that they know what is best for the rest of and, indeed, the world at large. Their policies only serve to promote that agenda, ably supported by their secretive practices surrounding their policy making process. I dont like what they are doing or what they stand for, but Idone think they're dumb rather, they are dangerous and deceitful.
Peter Ormonde
Peter Ormonde is a Friend of The Conversation.
Farmer
"know what's best ... agenda... secret practices of policy making ... dangerous... deceitful..." STREWTH - they've become politicians!
Paul Reader
independent researcher
The paradox of the Greens is that they probably do know what is best for us, and that is; that we make decisions locally about what is best. Given last week's Conversation, I think it is clear that continuing to mine coal is dangerous. I would say billionaires funding climate change denial media (much like property owners and government elites funding anti-democracy 'church and king' mobs in the 1790s) are actually deceitful. Exactly who are the Greens dangerous to, and how are they deceitful?
Felix MacNeill
Environmental Manager
Leigh, did you think to collect the dorsal fin when you jumpe dthe shark?
I believe they fetch quite a decent pricer on the black market.
Felix MacNeill
Environmental Manager
That's right, John - we've already got your cave marked out for you!
John Phillip
John Phillip is a Friend of The Conversation.
Grumpy Old Man
Indeedydoo :)
John Phillip
John Phillip is a Friend of The Conversation.
Grumpy Old Man
No,Mike, Leigh made a straightforward and accurate appraisal of the Greens and their stated goals.
Felix Lawrence
PhD candidate in Physics at University of Sydney
The below is not relevant to the conversation on this topic and I apologise for that.
This article is not the kind of content I would like to see more of on The Conversation. It is news-focussed and does not seem to offer deep analysis; instead it tries to fit the events to a narrative or simple story.
We know that the Greens don't like mining. We know Labor wants to distance itself from the Greens. Yes, a news story should present the piece of news in this context, but the article is in the "Analysis and Comment" section of a publication that prides itself on its authors' deep thinking and expertise rather than being able to get news out quickly.
I come to The Conversation for insight rather than the latest news. This is a well-written news article. I would prefer to read it in another news source. I do not appear to be alone in this thinking, given some of the other comments. Please do not begin to decrease your otherwise-excellent signal-to-noise ratio!
Kim Darcy
Analyst
Felix, the worst part is we are not reading about academic work here. We are reading fish and chip wrapping paper, which we can read on 100 other sites.
alfred venison
records manager (public sector)
but can you comment on the e-fish wrapping paper at the 100 other sites? can you comments on the other 100 other sites go so far as to insult the writer & not get pulled from the thread? -a.v.
R. Ambrose Raven
none
But look to what an Abbott Government would mean.
Ruling class warfare against the 99% has been liberated from its post-war closet. Together, the moneybags and the media they own have brazenly reversed the truth, blaming a Great Recession deliberately caused by their own greed onto the victims - the masses, now suddenly deemed to have a "Culture of Expectation". Naturally the solution is for the masses to be relieved of this moral hazard by, surprise, surprise, transferring their earnings to…
Read moreKim Darcy
Analyst
"Great Recession", ah have you actually paid any attention to Australia's economic performance data? Hardly a recession, let alone "Great".
R. Ambrose Raven
none
So you've not noticed austerity in Europe or mass impoverishment in the United States? Nor that Abbott is drooling over the prospect of doing the same here? We can I think treat this self-serving half-truth for what it is.
A win by Abbott certainly means the same ruling class revenge on the 99% that we are seeing in Greece and Spain with their 27% unemployment. Like the denialists and haters of the climate change and other issues, he is a particularly ugly individual, who would be ruthless…
Read moreRobert Tony Brklje
Robert Tony Brklje is a Friend of The Conversation.
retired
The Greens must learn to target cautions risk avoiding Australian, those less interested in exploiting everything humanely possible and more interested in a safe and stable future.
They have to shift the conservative to conservation and expose the wild greedy risk takers for who they are.
They really have to learn how to take liberal voters away from the Liberal Party and make them Green Party voters and supporters.
Lynne Newington
Lynne Newington is a Friend of The Conversation.
Researcher
I'm wondering what will become of David Shoebridge, a strong advocate for victims and supporter of the Royal Commission called for by the prime minister.
Christopher Seymour
Business owner
In past elections, I have always voted Greens number 1. But no more.- they have become too politicised on non environmental issues like immigration, drug policy and especially Israel/Palestine. And now Milne is taking up the old cry of the Democrats "keep the bastards honest" - which was always a very dishonest concept. The Greens should stick to environmental issues and let the major parties fight out the social and economic issues.
alfred venison
records manager (public sector)
so, are you moving from the greens (1) because the greens have social & economic policies, or (2) because labor or liberal social & economic policy is better than greens social & economic policy? -a.v.
Steve Birdsall
Retired
Some of your best friends are Greens . . . ?
Kim Darcy
Analyst
Alfred, raving on about Jews and "Zionists" put off a lot of people who care about climate change. It makes The Greens look like a party of cheap international socialist undergraduates, selling "Green Left Weekly" outside grimy train stations. Not a smart way to attract adults.
Peter Ormonde
Peter Ormonde is a Friend of The Conversation.
Farmer
One of the problems for a small inner city open party is being prone to small groups hurtling about like a bunch of quarks on speed.
The folks running the Greens show in inner west Sydney did a better job that the CSG companies could have paid them for. Set the Greens back 10 years - certainly in NSW and I suspect elsewhere. Top job.
This will probably not be the last such situation. In this instance it was the refugees from the "book-learned Left" ... Quixotic, self-indulgent and undisciplined ... ranters. But it could just as easily be a mob of libertarians, or NIMBYs or dairy farmers.
And it is something the Greens must seriously address... the relationship between local activist based politics and a national representative party. Who speaks for the Greens? Who is the dog - who is the tail?
I hope Bob Brown can sort something sensible before he retires to the woods. Perhaps at the local level the only things Green are indeed green... stick to their knitting.
Paul Reader
independent researcher
Ranters? yes you are probably right.Having once worked with a state peak environment body during the closing days of the Olympic Dam protest, I understand the difficulties of working with diverse community interests and sorting out real interests from mining lobby planted ranters and astroturfers. It is indeed a lot like the 1640s, and a number of recent academic works have made comparisons between that period when 'the world turned upside down' (Hill 1975) and the situation today, especially with DIY activists and the Occupy movement (Hemphill & Leskowitz 2012) . If we look at the 1640s I think we will also find plenty of examples of astroturfing too, although generally it remained undifferentiated from spying back then. Perhaps we could identify the interests today, as neo-levellers, neo-ranters, neo-diggers, neo-royalists, and green puritans of a new new model-army.
Kim Darcy
Analyst
Peter, yes but inner west Sydney gang is the support base for Lee Rhiannon. So, unfortunately, we haven't seen the end of this from The Greens.
Peter Ormonde
Peter Ormonde is a Friend of The Conversation.
Farmer
I wouldn't mind if they took a few pages from the levellers myself... top lot! Never liked those Enclosure Acts myself.
I'd have a hunch that the arrival of the printing press and the pamphlet and the spread of reading was very much the interweb of its day... ideas spreading like a grass-fire.
But I suspect astroturfing is something unique to our modern madness. Let's hope so anyway. There's gotta be a cure for it.
Peter Ormonde
Peter Ormonde is a Friend of The Conversation.
Farmer
No I think this is actually a very significant issue for them actually - not so much Rhiannon but this tension between a small local activist party (which by definition will not be "representative") and a set of parliamentarians attempting to project a coherent and consistent set of policy positions.
The Greens draw on political traditions that are not directly Westminster and it is no easy thing to juggle thinking locally and acting nationally, if not globally.
Kim Darcy
Analyst
Peter, as an old Marxist, you would know only too well, that you cannot be both a radical/revolutionary movement, and a parliamentary movement at the same time.
Paul Reader
independent researcher
Levellers? No, altogether too scarey. Cromwell and Ireton, chickened out too. Personally, I think Winstanley and the diggers probably had the middle ground (no pun intended) and a plausible alternative, but even that was too radical for the propertied likes of the grandees. If however they had achieved something more democratic, in the 1640s, we probably would not be faced today with trying to" learn our way out" of industrial capitalism. Land enclosure is still happening today in Africa and underpinning…
Read morePeter Ormonde
Peter Ormonde is a Friend of The Conversation.
Farmer
Not only a problem for marxists - or even old Marxists, Kim.
There's a real tension - a contradiction if you like - between seeking to change society and managing the State... the things you must do day to day (like making sure the mines keep working) get in the way of the things you want to do decade on decade (finding a better way of making a quid).
The trick to it will be finding a means of creating and living the new in the midst of the old. New ways of thinking, new institutions, new…
Read morePeter Ormonde
Peter Ormonde is a Friend of The Conversation.
Farmer
Coming from solid bog Irish stock I've always found the Levellers a bit staid myself ... just common sense really. Their newspaper was called "The Moderate" for heaven's sake! It's like being scared of Don Chipp or Janine Haines.
Not all doom and gloom on the agricultural front either. I've posted a few comments on here over the year on rice growing and science coming out of Cornell's SRI projects. Here's what we can do: http://www.guardian.co.uk/global-development/2013/feb/16/india-rice-farmers-revolution
No one - NO ONE - in Australia is working on this SRI business. Why the hell not?
Belinda Brownie
logged in via email @gmail.com
I don't understand this attitude, which I've seen repeated several times on different websites over the past few days. The Greens are only allowed to have a single issue, and to broaden their political perspective makes them more unpalatable? Does this logic also mean that Labor should limit itself to only worker's union-related issues? This is crazy. I vote Green precisely because of their social policies, as do many others.
Kim Darcy
Analyst
Peter, given the choices you've given me, I don't think I can win either way. Why don't we settle for "old" as in "wise". ;)
alfred venison
records manager (public sector)
". . . because of their social policies, as do many others." yer darn right there, Belinda Brownie. and not long ago the greens were slammed for being a single issue party, now, a party with policies on a range of issues, the greens are slammed for not being a single issue party. a.v.
Paul Reader
independent researcher
Are there still two electorates available where Rudd and Turnbull could stand as Green candidates? Or perhaps they would be better as independents If Torbay can be as and career-minded (perhaps sleezy) as to join the Nationals to stand against Windsor, I think anti-party stands by prominent politicians is on.
Peter Ormonde
Peter Ormonde is a Friend of The Conversation.
Farmer
I reckon Malcolm would have a decent shot at winning his own seat as an Independent ... he really doesn't have any future at all with the Abbott Liberals and I don't think he'd be able to sit in the same room with Barnaby Joyce.
Michael Shand
Michael Shand is a Friend of The Conversation.
Software Tester
I love how no matter what happens - for Michelle it all comes back to Rudd, every single time
Greens stand strong on their principals - lets see what rudd says
Kim Darcy
Analyst
Michael, the sordid way Gillard attained power will always follow her around like Lady Macbeth and bloody hands.
Michael Shand
Michael Shand is a Friend of The Conversation.
Software Tester
Yeah mainly because disgruntled employees of the ALP (See grattan) will hold a grudge forever and a day
wilma western
logged in via email @bigpond.com
Bob Brown's comment about concentrating on the Greens balance of power in the Senate supports Michelle's analysis ,but the overexcited language - "dumps" '"events running out of her control" is pretty unnecessary. Just reinforcement to the poll-driven anti- Gillard commentary .
In fact the Greens by no means dictated the terms of the " agreement" - big concessions have been made - especially re the carbon-pricing package , where the Greens decided that half or three quarters of a loaf was better…
Read moreLynne Newington
Lynne Newington is a Friend of The Conversation.
Researcher
In general discussions with friends this morning about status quo, death taxes was mentioned as being part of the Greens package.
I've never heard that before.
Coming from a long line of Liberals, maybe it was just scare tactics, you know what politics are like.
Garry Claridge
Systems Analyst
"Death Taxes" are no longer in the Greens policies.
Alan John Hunter
Retired
Time to jump Michelle before you are pushed or fall off your perch, I gained nothing from this tripe and I don't know why you bothered.
Ronald Ostrowski
logged in via Facebook
Gee, the MSM and now The Conversation. Michelle has brought the old shallow MSM/ABC political soap opera/political activist ingredient to the supposedly analytical and objective The Conversation. And, we are also, in our public conservation facilitated by the MSM, giving way too much oxygen to the political commentarial space, not to mention posters like MarilynS et al, to what seems to me a bunch of acid spitting self hating members of the female gender or male chauvinists who lack the maturity…
Read moreTim Keegan
Community Worker
Article was a waste of time. Comments interesting.
John Phillip
John Phillip is a Friend of The Conversation.
Grumpy Old Man
Therefore, article not waste of time.
john tons
post graduate student
The real tragedy is that we will be faced with a choice among three unpalatable alternatives. All three parties are committed to the idea of endless growth - the very idea that this may be the end of growth simply is not on the political agenda of any of the three parties. Whilst that is understandable in the case of the ALP and Coalition, it is unpardonable in the case of the Greens - the so called environmental protectors are every bit as dangerous for the environment as their bigger brothers. Of course the problem for all of them is that for far too long growth has been spruiked as the answer to all of our problems so that now anyone who dares to suggest that the good times are behind us, that it is time to cut up our credit cards and start reducing our ecological footprint will probably find it difficult to convince voters but is there any point in perpetuatng the myth of unlimited growth in a finite world?
Garry Claridge
Systems Analyst
John, I am a part of the economics policy team for the Queensland Greens. I can certainly tell you that we do not promote the growth/expansion of GDP as the panacea for an ecologically sustainable and socially just economy.
Michael Shand
Michael Shand is a Friend of The Conversation.
Software Tester
More power to you brother, keep up the good fight
John Phillip
John Phillip is a Friend of The Conversation.
Grumpy Old Man
Garry, can you explain how taxing the living daylights out of those who work for a living to provide a whole range of services and service a whole raft of legislation is socially just. Why doesnt your party support small government?
John Phillip
John Phillip is a Friend of The Conversation.
Grumpy Old Man
Gary, my post above sounds antagonistic and I would hope that you could tone it down as you read it - sorry. I really am after an answer rather than (as appears on rereading) a 'response'. Cheers
Garry Claridge
Systems Analyst
John,
I'm not sure of your source for "...taxing the living daylights out of those who work for a living..."?
The Greens policy states "... the progressivity of the income tax and transfer system across all income levels including by reducing effective marginal tax rates for low income workers, and increasing the marginal tax rate on incomes over $1 million"
Hard work should be rewarded fairly.
John Phillip
John Phillip is a Friend of The Conversation.
Grumpy Old Man
Gary, thanks for the reply. It just seems that as a middle income family,we are getting smashed by taxes at all levels. Prices seem to be increasing substantially, but this isnt reflected in the official inflation figures. My specific concerns with the Greens is that the party seems to be into increasing the size of government beyond what labor would settle for in order to compell compliance with he social and environemntal agendas. The ALP seems to want bigger gov than the Libs - unfortunately the Libs want much bigger government than what I want. So can you see my dilema?
wilma western
logged in via email @bigpond.com
How would you use the general principle re income tax to justify Milne's decision to oppose the cutting of special R & D breaks for the very wealthiest companies in order to help finance effective innovation and other strengthening measures for manufacturing including the struggling food sector ? I believe these particular breaks aren't even part of the overall R&D set-up. It rather looks like a petty hit back at Labor statements that Milne's big announcement won't make all that much difference .The Greens talk big about doing away with unjustified subsidies to wealthy companies - now this effort.
Chris O'Neill
Telecommunications Engineer
"the growth/expansion of GDP"
Growth/expansion of GDP does not necessarily mean physical growth. It can (and usually does) mean growth in complexity of goods such as software and improvements in organisation. Many people don't seem to realise this fact.
Michael Shand
Michael Shand is a Friend of The Conversation.
Software Tester
Tea Party much - Dey wont BIG Gubment, we wont small Gubment
As if they actually translate into anything other than a misguided fantasy of how the world works
Paul Pfluger
retired
Grattan's articles are part of the media's outrageously overdone bullying campaign against Julia Gillard and her government, in an effort to ensure the installation of Abbott as our next PM. Why on earth would the Conversation expect donations from people like me, who feel under constant psychological assault by Grattan's incessant Liberal cheer-leading.
John Phillip
John Phillip is a Friend of The Conversation.
Grumpy Old Man
So now, criticism of incompetence is a media conspiracy to install Abbott as PM? Mmmmm...sounds, smells and tastes like paranoid leftie propaganda.
Michael Shand
Michael Shand is a Friend of The Conversation.
Software Tester
One sided criticism of politics is seen is such news organisations as Fox - so yes, one sided criticism of politicis is propaghanda
Peter Redshaw
Retired
The confusing thing for me in this statement by Christine Milne and the Greens is that as far as I can see nothing has changed in their agreement with labor. In the original Labor/Greens agreement if my memory is correct the only guarantee the Greens gave Labor was the guarantee of supply. And as far as I understand from Milne's statement that guarantee of supply is still the same.
So please, other than the rhetoric from Milne and the Greens, what has changed. After all Labor is still in…
Read morePeter Ormonde
Peter Ormonde is a Friend of The Conversation.
Farmer
Short answer Peter - nothing has changed.
Other than the Greens are demonstrating a better sense of media manipulation than previously... call a press conference, make a Big Announcement, throw in a bit of heat and anger and hey presto in comes Michelle and the rest serving the decree nisi and predicting dire times ahead (unspecified of course). Just what we wanted says Ms Milne, thanks for your help.
Like a yo-yo on a string.
Peter Sommerville
Scientist & Technologist
Welcome to The Conversation Michelle. As I am sure you already aware no matter what you write there will be many in this space, with some notable usual suspects, who will lambast you.
Personally in this instance I think you have got it right. This is nothing but a transparent stunt by Milne in an effort to shore up a weakening green supporter base by attracting disaffected Labour voters who have no where else to go. But such is politics.
robert maloney
robert maloney is a Friend of The Conversation.
Retired Educator
Is it just possible that the greens are positioning themselves on the issue that climate change is real that it is happening now there is 10 billion in the pipeline that Australia is effectively exporting its CO2 action by us all at a national level is needed to ensure a reasonable future for our grandchildren it is the biggest issue we face there are real hardships coming and the only way to overcome the long term issues is to move away from fossil fuel and to start now with actions that actually reduce the way Australia uses this sort of energy
James Hill
Industrial Designer
This all part of the predicted backlash against The Royal Commission into Institutional Child Abuse!
No?? oh, it must be the recent negative polls that are all part....
Sorry.