The Gillard Government’s Clean Energy Bill enters legislation after today passing the Senate 36 votes to 32. Voting ‘no’ were the Coalition, independent Nick Xenophon, and the Democratic Labor Party’s John Madigan.
The Clean Energy Bill will put an initial price of $23 per tonne of carbon (or equivalent greenhouse gases) emitted into the atmosphere from July next year.
The scheme has not enjoyed popular support, and Julia Gillard went to the last election vowing not to introduce it. Yet, in her post-election coalition with the Greens and independents, things changed.
Expert reactions:
Professor John Martin, Director of the Centre for Sustainable Regional Communities, La Trobe University
We have a conference next week about community power – all about community-based renewable energy projects. I’m not interested in carbon trade; I’m just trying to get on with it with regional communities in Australia to build wind-farms, put up solar parks, biodigesters, and all that kind of stuff. I’m very much focused on how you make that happen.
My general view as an ecologist trained 30 years ago who got into political science, we have to reduce our greenhouse gases and we have to take action. I work in La Trobe’s regional campuses and I focus on regional communities and I’m totally inspired by what good Australian citizens are doing out there across the country.
They’re actually doing things, and we’re seeing from our central government, our state governments, a lack of action around renewable energy. For example in Victoria they’ve put a hold on wind farms – public policy that’s an absolute nonsense – rather than negotiate with communities as they’re doing in Western Australia and New South Wales, with communities coming together to decide whether they want to have these constructions on the skyline
In one sense I’m disappointed with our whole political-administrative system. They’re not focused on action; they’re focused on, “Who pays? Not me.”
It’s just a lack of leadership in terms of dealing with the major critical issue facing the world. I don’t get caught up in it – I’d rather do the things I want done.
People get caught up in the technology; they say, “Oh they’re going to put up a wind-farm or a solar park,” and they don’t really think about their energy use. They put the cart before the horse.
What we have to do as a community is really think about how we use our energy. The low-hanging fruit is energy efficiency; turn the lights off and stop the draft – basic things that can make a huge difference. We’ve done it in our communities around Bendigo. Then you start to think, “Well, if we were to have a renewable source, what source would we use, what scale would we work at, what business model would we use, would we sell shares, would we privatise, what would we do?” There’s a myriad different ways you can do it. You engage people in a conversation about that, and then you look at the technology.
The mechanics is fairly secondary, but the thing with politicians is they want to fund something. They want to fund assets and infrastructure. The Regional Development [Victoria] fund is all about a new hall, a new library, additions to a football ground. They just don’t understand the processes that go into making sustainable communities, whether they be urban or rural. They’re not prepared to engage in a dialogue or debate with people about that and therefore we’re not actually working as a community.
Local government and democracy aren’t working because it’s centralised and secretive.
When you look at the generation of power it’s a centralised, mechanical model, so it’s not surprising that you have a bureaucracy which reflects that centralised mechanical model. When you start to have distributed systems which are different across a grid, a network approach, it’s a completely different way of thinking and our bureaucrats just close shop.
The people who are doing it are in many ways naive and nice people. They are not malicious and they’re not being malevolent. This is just the way the system of managerialism works, and I’m not surprised young Australians want to occupy Melbourne and elsewhere when they get a glimpse of this and they start to see how the system has failed them.
The carbon tax is a similar thing. It’s a centralised, old bureaucratic model of dealing with the issue of pollution. Why aren’t they having a conversation with people, and kids in schools, about how they can deal with pollution?
Chris Riedy, Research Director, Institute for Sustainable Futures, University of Technology, Sydney
It’s great that it’s finally passed. It’s been a long time coming and a lot of people in the climate action movement have worked really hard to make it happen so there’ll be a lot of people celebrating.
It’s driving towards a 5 per cent emission reduction target, so there is a small reduction in emissions coming from it and bigger than that when you consider that Australia’s emissions have been going up since 2000, so it’s going to need to turn around the direction that emissions are going in and start to bring them back down again.
And I’m still hopeful that through the international negotiations Australia might move beyond that 5 per cent target to either 15 or 20 per cent reduction-targets that were listed in the Copenhagen Accord. I would argue that the conditions for the 15 per cent target have already been met, so Australia should be thinking about moving to that target.
We saw a big boost in Australia’s negotiating power when Kevin Rudd ratified the Kyoto Protocol, and this is not quite as big as that but there will be an effect even if it’s largely a symbolic one of Australia, who used to be one of the laggards on climate action, actually legislating a scheme and committing to a process to meet a target, so that will put some pressure on the other countries that haven’t gone down that path.
Paul Burke, Research Fellow at the Crawford School of Economics & Government, Australian National University
The passing of the Government’s carbon pricing scheme is an important milestone in the process of efficiently reducing climate change risks.
Australia has an emissions reduction commitment that is part of a global effort to reduce global greenhouse gas emissions. If our goal is to meet our commitment, we may as well do it in a manner which is likely to be least-cost. There is a near consensus among economists that the least-cost means of achieving an emissions reduction target is via putting a price on carbon. With a price on carbon in place, the private sector will choose to invest and produce in ways that are likely to involve fewer greenhouse gas emissions. There is money to be made by being more carbon-efficient. With a strong and rising carbon price, our economy can keep on growing, while our emissions growth is reined in, and eventually reversed.
The purpose of carbon pricing is to see a relatively gradual change to a low-emissions economy. The most important changes will likely come about primarily via supply-side energy source switching (e.g. coal to solar), which most consumers will barely notice.
It is important to recognise the strong opposition to the move to price carbon in Australia. Much of the current discontent is likely to dissipate subsequent to what will probably be an innocuous start to the scheme in July 2012. Building a stronger and more resilient consensus that climate change risks are worth managing, and that carbon pricing is the way to do it, is important for ensuring the ongoing stability of the scheme.
Governments have to raise revenue somehow. While the money raised via pricing carbon will never be a large share of the Government’s total revenue, carbon revenue does provide the opportunity to reduce other taxes. Next financial year, almost 40 per cent of the carbon permit revenue will be used to reduce income tax. Hopefully a larger share of the revenue from the carbon price will be used to reduce existing taxes in the future. Taxes identified by the Henry Review as being highly inefficient should ideally be the first to go, although this would require collaboration with the states. No-one likes paying tax, but given the increasingly conclusive evidence of climate change risks, pricing carbon seems to be pretty sensible.
Anna Skarbek, Executive Director, ClimateWorks Australia (a non-profit collaboration hosted by Monash Sustainability Institute)
ClimateWorks welcomes the passage of this legislation. It will finally create an emissions trading scheme for Australia, making low carbon investments more attractive relative to fossil fuel alternatives and business as usual.
The policy package also offers significant complementary measures to help boost business uptake of energy efficiency and carbon farming. Our research shows that together, these programs could reduce Australia’s emissions by 133 million tonnes and take us over three-quarters of the way towards achieving the minimum 5 per cent target by 2020 – if they are implemented well. This should provide solid evidence for strengthening Australia’s 2020 pollution cap, when reviewed by the independent Climate Change Authority in two years. We will be closely monitoring progress.

The following is a selection of expert opinions collected by the Australian Science Media Centre:
Professor John Quiggin, Professor of Economics, University of Queensland and currently Hinkley Professor at John Hopkins University, Baltimore, US
This is a big achievement, coming at an opportune time. With South Korea planning to follow suit, momentum towards carbon emission reductions in the Asia Pacific is starting to build. Even more significant, although it received little attention, is China’s introduction a few weeks ago of a nationwide feed-in tariff for solar PV. Although this is not the most efficient way to reduce emissions, the fact that it is being undertaken by the world’s largest emitter means that we still have a chance to reverse the growth in global emissions before it is too late.
Professor John Cole, Director of the Australian Centre for Sustainable Business and Development, University of Southern Queensland
The challenge for Australians now is to believe we can make a difference in the action we take, demonstrate that the direction we have set is worthy of adoption by other countries, and to be resolute, relentless and persuasive in making the case for global action on climate change. To that end we will be more credible because of the legislation passed in the Senate today.
Professor Patricia Vickers-Rich, Founding Director at the Monash Science Centre, Monash University
Wonderful news. It is high time that a country with folks that have so much, and pollute so much, is finally willing to be responsible for their impost on the planet. Now who is up for trying to do us one better!!??
Professor Peter Newman, John Curtin Distinguished Professor of Sustainability, Director of Curtin University Sustainable Policy Institute, Curtin University
The Clean Energy Bill passed through Parliament and the world did not collapse, the sun came up as usual – and we all look forward to putting it more to use.
Professor Snow Barlow, Professor of Horticulture and Viticulture at the Melbourne School of Land and Environment, University of Melbourne
This groundbreaking legislation is a significant achievement for the Gillard government with strong and courageous support of the independents and Greens. I am sure that Minister [Greg] Combet will demonstrate the same determination and competence that he has demonstrated in playing a leading role in the development and carriage of this policy initiative.
The passage of this legislation will provide clear direction and certainty for business and the community to plan the future of the Australian economy, contrary to much of the rhetoric that has accompanied the debate around these bills.
In the land sector this legislation will provide the essential funding mechanisms to allow land managers to implement the carbon farming measures that generate carbon credits with value and in this way finally put a price on carbon in the critical area of eco-systems services now.
Emeritus Professor Ian Lowe, Emeritus Professor of Science, Technology and Society, Griffith University, and President of the Australian Conservation Foundation
This is a very important step forward. Parliament has finally recognised what the science has been saying for decades. The other elements of the package must now be rapidly added.
Dr Roger Dargaville, Research Fellow from the School of Earth Sciences and the Melbourne Energy Institute, University of Melbourne
The passing of the Government’s carbon tax is a major step in the right direction. While the $23 a tonne initial price will have only a modest effect on both the energy generators and energy consumers, it puts the concept transition to low carbon generation and energy efficient technologies firmly in place.
The tax, combined with other levers such as feed-in tariffs and subsides, will see a shift towards wind and solar technologies, as well as towards gas from coal for traditional electricity production.
Dr Barrie Pittock, former leader of the CSIRO Climate Impacts Group, author of Climate Change: The Science, Impacts and Solutions
Passage of the Clean Energy Bill means that Australia is at last taking action that recognises the scientific fact that human emissions of greenhouse gases are causing increased global warming and that this poses serious risks to civilisation and ecosystems. Warnings of the increasing risk of human-induced climate change date back to the 19th century (Swedish chemist Svante Arrhenius, 1896), and in modern times since at least the statement of the Toronto conference in 1988 and the first IPCC reports in 1991. Some of my own work, published in 1992 and based on undeniable physics, warned of increased intensity rainfall in a warmer world, leading to more severe floods. Such warnings were ignored by investors in the Kakadu uranium mine and the huge open-cut coal mines in Queensland, many of which were flooded and closed down for months early this year due to record high rainfalls, at a cost of many millions of dollars.
Certainty is not necessary to take non-negligible risks into account. Risk management is a common place activity as instanced by insuring our houses against fire, and the engineering standards set for street drains, bridges and dams to cope with increasingly severe flood events. This is not a matter of arbitrary laws imposed by governments on people, but of taking the laws of Nature into account. So it is with climate change: investors should have and must now accept that public and private risk management is needed regarding climate change. Governments, in imposing rules, are not being arbitrary but doing their best to cope with Nature’s laws.
The Federal Government’s new laws, while not perfect, seek to do this, recognising that the market system probably provides the most economically efficient means of doing so. It is puzzling in the extreme that the Opposition seeks to “pick winners” rather than let the market decide what is most efficient. Moreover, it is inevitable that all countries will need to take measures to minimise the risks from climate change. It is advantageous for Australia to be an early adopter of low emissions technology, especially as we have huge potential resources of clean energy from the sun, wind, geothermal, waves and tides. We can help set an example and profit from experience by increasing energy efficiency and setting up large-scale renewable energy generators. Along with other early adopters such as Spain, Germany, Denmark, California and even India and China, we can encourage others to follow our example. It is a huge opportunity and will provide more jobs, not less.
Dr Peter Rayner, Australian Professorial Fellow, The University of Melbourne
An equitable share of global emissions that will stabilise CO2 concentrations is about 0.8 tonnes of carbon per person per year.
That is a cut of over 80 per cent for Australians. Today is the start of a long journey but, if past experience is any guide, starting out is the hardest part.
Professor Kevin Parton, Institute for Land, Water and Society, Charles Sturt University
Australia joins the league of carbon pricing nations. With the passage of the carbon tax legislation through the Senate, Australia has become the 33rd country to introduce a price on carbon. In addition to the 32 other fully operational schemes, Japan and Korea have an emissions trading scheme under development, as do major cities in China, and two groups of states and provinces in the United States and Canada.
With more and more countries prepared to put a price on carbon, it will enhance the general competitiveness of Australian industry to parallel our international competitors.
The tax is designed to encourage business to become more energy efficient and also look for profit potential in a clean energy world. By introducing the policy (which takes effect from July 2012), Australia can take control of its own policy agenda. Without the policy we would have been increasingly at the whim of other nations. An example of this is the planned levying of fees from Qantas from early 2012 under the EU emissions trading scheme. These are fees that Qantas could arguably avoid once the Australian scheme is operational.
It is a step forward for Australia to be able to have relatively independently its own approach to carbon pricing.
Under the Australian scheme, approximately 500 firms will face a tax of $23 per tonne of CO2 equivalent that they emit. Because some cost increases will be passed on to consumers, there will be tax cuts and pension increases to compensate individuals.
Dr Rob Roggema, Research Fellow in the Climate Change Adaptation Program of the Global Cities Research Institute, RMIT University
Glad it’s all over! With the passing of the bill through senate the carbon debate is no longer dominating the climate change debate. And this is a very important moment, but only if our minds start to focus on real, important parts of the climate debate: we need to prepare our societies for completely new environments, which will be impacted by the effects of global warming.
Rigorous carbon reductions, even if taken worldwide, will not stop global warming for the next decades and we will have to face the consequences of a warming Earth.
This warming will for Australia mean prolonged periods of drought – sometimes severe, rainfall and flooding, a rising sea level with storm surges along the coast, more severe cyclones and a higher bushfire risk. The main priority for the public and private sector needs to be to support people to be prepared for the future. Joint forces need to start making regional plans, metropolitan plans and urban designs that anticipate future change. We need robust designs that last, even if future change is not meeting current expectations.
Australia is signalling to the world that a carbon regulation is a step forward, which will stimulate innovation in the energy production sector, but we will need to start adapting to a new climate at the same time within our own boundaries.
The passing of the bill is not the end, but just the beginning.
Timothy Curtin
Economic adviser
One curiousity is the failure of Australian economists especially here but without exception elsewhere to notice or comment on the perverse incentives enshrined in our “Clean (sic) Energy” legislation as from today.
I first began teaching economics in 1961, and since 1970 have practised it as an economic adviser. In general my colleagues and I searched for ways to get firms to increase output and thereby incomes, given likely economies of scale, which in turn would boost growth of GDP.
Not any more. The essence of the Clean Energy Acts is to create incentives for firms to reduce output, because thereby they reduce their liability to the carbon (sic) tax, and even worse, once the ETS kicks in, they will be able to get actual cash for reducing output as that is the most cost-effective way to reduce their emissions and collect carbon credits.
Brave New Economics – and even better employment prospects for the Occupiers!
Felix MacNeill
Environmental Manager
Um, Timothy, I don't suppose you ever touched on concepts like the profit motive in all that economic teaching and advising?
Timothy Curtin
Economic adviser
Felix. Yes I did, hence my concern that profit maximisation under the carbon tax is at a lower level of both profits and output, i.e. less than optimal. Why is that good?
John C
logged in via email @gmail.com
Thanks for this informative article. I appreciated especially Paul Burke's statements. John
Sue Morrison
Environmental management student, UNE
Timothy - if you started teaching economics 40 years ago perhaps it's time you looked at some economics for the 21st century. You could start reading here: http://www.e3network.org/
Economics is about so much more than just maximising output and profits!
Timothy Curtin
Economic adviser
Hi Sue. Well who would have thought of that at any age! Nevertheless your income like mine is higher when GDP is optimised along with maximisation of profits. Moreover the Australian economists quoted here are as ignorant of economists' other main tool, cost-benefit analysis, as they are least squares regression analysis. For the truth is that rising atmospheric CO2 is minimum precondition for the rising food production needed to feed the growing world population - only when that has stabilised…
Read moreDave McRae
logged in via Twitter
Thank you for eventually identifying your beliefs.
You think Royal Society (amongst others) are ninnies for worrying about a +4C world http://rsta.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/369/1934.toc
Rather you assert that agriculture is CO2 limited and we could have rice fields in the Simpson and corn fields throughout the Sahara.
Dave McRae
logged in via Twitter
"..and Julia Gillard went to the last election vowing not to introduce it.."
There are many differences between Carbon Tax and an Emissions Trading Scheme, please don't try to dumb this down. I prefer a Carbon Tax over an ETS and there are studies that show that a CT will be more efficient than an ETS at a particular price. But then again, I'll take a carbon price anyway I can get it. Not the least being because I think the theory of price elasticity is fairly solid. Nearly up there with Greenhouse…
Read moreDoug Cotton
IT Manager
Regarding your reference to Fourier and Tyndall ...
Fourier never even talked about greenhouses. He in fact said that, for the atmosphere to act like the glass in a hotbox it would have to solidify. To ascribe GH theory to Fourier is an insult to his physics.
http://fourier1824.geologist-1011.mobi/
Tyndall did experiments on the relative amounts of radiation absorbed by atmospheric gases. We now know much more from quantum mechanics, and the original capture of a photon is far from the end of the story. Sorry, but Tyndall did not "prove" GHG theory. No one has.
Doug Cotton
IT Manager
I was interested to see Dr Barrie Pittock commenting here, knowing something of his career. In his comments he claims the theory is "based on undeniable physics" and so I would appreciate his response to the following if he happens to read this.
At least one of the standard "explanations" of the GH effect makes a statement to the effect that layers of air radiate thermal energy. Yet we know that in fact oxygen and nitrogen molecules do not radiate significantly at atmospheric temperatures according…
Read moreDave McRae
logged in via Twitter
Forgive me but I truest NASA GISS over you. I note they got NPP satellite up smoothly, the next generation in earth observations including earth's energy budget. NASA has been reporting that absorption bands in the CO2 and methane lines increasing.
Do you have any published papers in any leading journals? You should write your hypothesis up. I'm not competent enough to judge your work but if it passes the review process of Nature or Science then I will certainly take notice and I'd be inclined to trust your analysis. I would be most interested in your work, then.
Until then, I'm backing NASA/CSIRO/BoM/AMOS/RoyalSociety/AAAS/AMS and those published in the prestigious journals.
Is that strategy wrong and if so, why?
Doug Cotton
IT Manager
Of course less radiation is getting through to TOA in the carbon dioxide and methane spectral bands because atmospheric concentrations of these are increasing, and part of that increase is due to increased burning of fossil fuels and more cattle to feed a growing population.
So the thermal energy ("heat" if you like IPCC incorrect terminology) must have been released to space via radiation of other wavelengths, mostly those emitted by water vapour. We know it has, because 2011 is shaping up to…
Read moreMatthew Thompson
Editor at The Conversation
Thanks to everyone who is contributing, but, please, let's all be civil.
Sue Morrison
Environmental management student, UNE
Dear Matthew
I agree we all need to be civil. I also think we need to make some attempt to stay on topic. I, for one, am sick of Mr Cotton's off-topic intrusions into many discussions on this site, repeatedly espousing his pet theories about climate change. I came to this site to read and participate in intelligent debate, not to be besieged by yet another "sceptic" - although I suspect his scepticism is a cover for his "denialism", given that he pays no regard to the key lines of evidence which explain why at least 97% of the world's active climate researchers believe greenhouse gas emissions from human activities are a problem we need to deal with:
http://thinkprogress.org/romm/2011/10/06/338286/charts-evidence-human-fingerprint-on-recent-climate-change/
If Mr Cotton has some other explanation for these lines of evidence he can post them on his own website and those who are interested can visit him there.
Doug Cotton
IT Manager
Not one of the charts on the site you linked does anything whatsoever to "prove" that carbon dioxide caused the warming last century which has now come to an end.
You will indeed find reasons for this on both my websites - where over 40,000 others have already visited.
Maybe you're move comfortable reading my medical posts such as http://theconversation.edu.au/safety-advisory-on-antidepressant-turned-adhd-drug-risk-of-rising-blood-pressure-and-heart-rate-4156
Sue Morrison
Environmental management student, UNE
No doubt many of the 40,000 who have apparently visited your website are as equally sceptical as I am of your qualifications in climatology. I will be more than happy to read your "theories" as soon as you direct me to any of your published research in reputable scientific journals and advise me how many times it has been cited in other relevant scientific research papers.
Doug Cotton
IT Manager
Likewise, when you publish a paper which disproves my explanation of how oxygen and nitrogen molecules diffuse their thermal energy to GHG molecules which then radiate it away.
Carbon dioxide also has a cooling role, but people may need an understanding of quantum mechanics to know why oxygen and nitrogen molecules do not radiate much themselves at atmospheric temperatures. In the absence of any GHG molecules, how would they shed the heat they gain from collision with surface molecules and other warmer molecules?
Sue Morrison
Environmental management student, UNE
I have never made any pretense of being a climate scientist nor do I have any "pet theories" to publish or anything to prove or disprove. As a post-graduate student in Environmental Systems, Markets and Climate Change I have explored much of the published literature and attempt to follow the latest research. I have no reason to question the overwhelming body of scientific evidence which supports the theory of enhanced greenhouse warming in response to human-related activities.
As a mother of 4 I…
Read moreDoug Cotton
IT Manager
As a father of six and a grandfather I also have an interest in future generations. But if all you wish to do is repeat the content of the standard IPCC-type "explanations" then don't bother writing such to myself who has studied these in great detail.
Considering the curved trend generated from temperatures over the last 30-odd years, I suggest no one can make a prediction from such as to whether long-term warming or cooling will occur from this point onwards. But it is highly improbable that increases of the order promulgated by the IPCC will eventuate, and they certainly have no scientifically proven case to support such guesses.
http://climate-change-theory.com/latest.jpg
Doug Cotton
IT Manager
PS
Of course the melting of ice sheets continues while ever the temperatures remain above freezing point. We are coming out of an ice age. That is why there is a propensity for sea levels to rise even when temperatures are constant. Hence, the fact that sea levels have been falling for nearly four years now is compelling evidence that the waters are contracting due to cooling, and this more than compensates for the rise due to that melting ice.. http://www.real-science.com/sea-level-falling-2-5-mmyear-2007
This is, after all, supported by the fact that it appears 2011 will be cooler than 2003 at sea surface. http://earth-climate.com/2003-2011.jpg
Andrew Foers
Student
It seems to me most of the people who are against this tax are getting their information from corporations such as News Corp who have vested interests in destroying or delaying this tax.
They don't care or tell you that atmospheric CO2 levels have been steadily rising over the past few decades and are now at close to 400ppm.
They don't tell you that temperatures are expected to rise by 1.1-6.4°C by the end of the 21st century, how high depends on on our emissions and that global sea levels will…
Read moreDoug Cotton
IT Manager
I can't speak for others, but I do agree many who are sceptical of AGW theory may have been misled by faulty arguments. I have, instead, applied the physics and the climatology and statistics which I have learnt over more than 40 years to come to the conclusion that there is no valid proof that carbon dioxide causes warming.
I'm the first to agree there was significant warming late last century and that carbon dioxide levels have increased to levels of about 1 molecule in every 2,500 of all air molecules, this being the highest for maybe over 1,000 years.
If you (or any others) are genuinely interested in learning why GHG molecules radiate thermal energy away, helping to cool the rest of the atmosphere, see my posts about 7 or 8 from the end of this thread: http://theconversation.edu.au/improving-climate-change-reportage-a-must-for-the-media-enquiry-4220
Andrew Foers
Student
>>>"that there is no valid proof that carbon dioxide causes warming"
Excuse me!
Doug Cotton
IT Manager
That's correct - see my latest site: http://climate-change-theory.com
Doug Cotton
IT Manager
And maybe you should read this (copied) summary regarding Climategate as you seem to be new to this and may not have come across such ...
"A tiny clique of politicized scientists, paid by unscientific politicians with whom they were financially and politically linked, were responsible for gathering and reporting data on temperatures from the palaeoclimate to today’s climate. The “Team”, as they called themselves, were bending and distorting scientific data to fit a nakedly political story-line profitable…
Read moreSue Morrison
Environmental management student, UNE
Quoting Lord Monckton as the best source of information on the so-called "Climategate scandal" reveals Mr Cotton to be the denier that he is: http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Lord_Monckton
Mr Cotton would be well aware that numerous inquiries have revealed a very different story to that portrayed by Mr Monckton:
http://www.skepticalscience.com/fake-scandal-Climategate.html
"In reality, Climategate has not thrown any legitimate doubt on CRU’s results, let alone the conclusions of the entire…
Read moreJohn C
logged in via email @gmail.com
Thanks Sue.
Doug Cotton
IT Manager
I'm sure people like yourself will be just as sceptical of myself as any source I quote. I consider what I posted is in fact a very good summary of the content of the original emails which I doubt that you have read.
Your arguments about warming do nothing to prove that carbon dioxide has been the cause. Yes it may well cause what you observe, but that does not prove it causes long-term warming from one year to the next. There has been no net warming at sea surface since 2003 - source NASA satellite data.