"It's called paranoia and it's treatable"

May be I am paronoid or may be I have a greater capacity to see the big/long term picture than you do.

You refugee bleeding hearts have a habit of sticking your heads in the sand and ignoring the potential wider and longer term implications of what you are advocating.

Felix I have previously pointed out that there is no justification for Julian to assume that the number of illegal immigrants will remain at the current low numbers in the long term if we dump mandatory detention and other deterent measures.

How about you people providing evidence for your assumption that illegal immigration WIILL NOT escelate out of control if all deterrent measures are dropped!

RE: Tim Mulligan

I agree about siege mentallity posioning the debate.

But Julian et el are maintaining thier own siege line regarding refugees and, as long as they do, I and a majority of Australian will react by maintaining our own siege line!

And you comment about fortress Australia is illogical.

Is it your positions that nations shouyld be abolished and that people should be able to move any where that they please?

If so I vehermently disgaree with you.

If not then maintaining sovereignty REQUIRES that we have a 'fortress Australia' so some extent.

RE: Rick Fleckner

Yes I am for real Rick!

And your comment is a strawman argument.

Illegal refugees are as human as I am regardless of their ethnicity or skin colour.

But that is irrelevant to this debate in my view.

We have obligations to future generations of Australians (including the non-anglo-saxon ones) as well as to refugees.

Selling out the prospects of future generations of Australians to appease our short term moral pangs is not an option as far as I cam concerned.

We should help those refugees that we can now without threatening the future of following generations.

It does not serve anyone's long term interests to allow Australia to become as over populated and degraded as many of the refugee source countries are at present resulting in the 'push' for them to come to Australia illegally.

There are ways we should be helping the world's refugees that will bring long term benefit rather than short term superficial fixes.

Principally among those measure is providing them with free contraception and family planning to help them substantially reduce the excessive number of new mouths to feed that they keep adding at present.

RE: vietnamese refugees.

I posit the following.

Despite superficial human politics, conflict of all flavours is directly proportional competition among humans for scarce resources, i.e. when the population size exceeds the country's or region's capacity to provide sufficient resources to meet the needs and wants of the people living there.

Hence we get periodic wars, genocide and sectarian conflicts which reduces the regions population through death or emmigration.

The competition for scarce resources is alleviated to some exent and the violence dies down for a time.

The population builds up again to unsustainable levels and we get a renewed out break of violence.

And so the cycle keeps repeating year after year and decade after decade. And short sighted people like you will continue to focus on the superficial politics while ignoring the inconvenient truth of the underlying cause of the conflicts.

I don't doubt for one minute that there will be vietnamese boat people again at some point in the future. Or from some other part of asia where fertility is not kept in check.

It is also important to note that an over populated country is not necessarily a densely populated country.

But by the same token a densely populated country is not necessarily over populated.

I posit that human conflict is the glaring marker of over population.

One view that I share strongly with my majority blue collar clients is that I bl00dy well object to Sri Lankens (or whom ever) arriving here uninvited and demanding my charity by hijacking commercial vessels, sowing their lips together and slashing their arms etc.

Take in refugees from official UN camps but send these Sri Lankens etc straight back to where they came from.

Thanks Spiro.

But I am afraid I get as much satisfaction in socking it to them as much as they no doubt enjoy socking it to me.

RE: Sean Manning

So Indians are racist bastards according to you huh Sean.

What other ethinic groups to you consider racist then?

So apparently you are labouring under the self delusion that you are apart from and superior to the 99% of the human race.

I bet that some one really closley examined your life and attitudes then many of your own unavoidable xenophobic tendancies would be revealed.

In fact I think we have revealed one of those tendancies just now!

Regarding Green's policy (other than brown coal generation for Tasmania" look it up for yourself

"ensure that potential immigrants are not unfairly discriminated against on any grounds.
increase the share of places for off-shore refugees and humanitarian entrants.
ensure that funding for public and community sector agencies providing migrant-specific services is increased to a level sufficient to provide adequate, effective and timely support.
ensure the development of networks, materials and programs that increase community understanding of the causes and benefits of migration.
abolish mandatory and indefinite detention of asylum seekers.
abolish discriminatory separation of refugees into permanent and temporary visa categories based on whether or not they arrived with a valid visa.
abolish the 'seven day rule' legislation whereby asylum seekers cannot gain a permanent protection visa if they have spent seven days in a third country.
restore the Australian migration zone to match Australia's territory and accept responsibility for processing all asylum seekers who seek Australia's protection within the migration zone.
ensure asylum seekers are fully informed of their rights on arrival and given immediate access to legal assistance.
restore asylum seekers' legal right to challenge decisions that affect them in the courts.
replace the current system of humanitarian visas (granted only by the Immigration Minister after rejection as a refugee) with an open, accountable humanitarian visa process incorporating a humanitarian review tribunal.
house asylum seekers who arrive without a valid visa in publicly owned and managed open reception centres, where entry and exit to these centres are unrestricted except where prohibited for medical or security reasons specified in clause 28.
ensure that initial assessment of refugee status is completed within 90 days.
grant asylum seekers an asylum application visa (AAV) and assist without delay their move into the community provided medical and security checks are satisfied or after 14 days has passed, whichever occurs first.
ensure asylum seekers living in the community while their claim is assessed will be granted an AAV which will entitle them to travel, work, income support and access to ongoing educational and medical services anywhere within Australia while their claims for asylum are assessed.
deny an AAV if security checks demonstrate the person poses a serious criminal threat to the Australian community or if the person has not remained housed in the reception centre while the medical and security checks were completed.
ensure that refusal to grant an AAV is reviewable at the Administrative Appeals Tribunal.
house those people refused an AAV in separate, appropriate, publicly owned and managed facilities close to urban areas.
ensure that, if refugee status is refused and the person cannot be repatriated, the AAV will remain in force until he or she can be repatriated.
ensure that the number of AAVs given to asylum seekers who arrive without a valid visa has no impact on the prescribed number of off-shore refugee and humanitarian entrants that Australia accepts.
support skilled migration programs that do not drain critical skills from other countries and do not substitute for training or undermine wages and conditions in Australia.
ensure that Australia adequately contributes to the funding of the United Nations High Commission for Refugees (UNHCR).
ensure that Australia adopts a definition of environmental refugee in its assessment criteria and works in the UN system for inclusion of a definition in the United Nations Refugee Convention.
ensure that no family unit is forcibly separated by the Australian assessment processes.
grant the families of approved asylum seekers permission to migrate to Australia for family reunions within a reasonable time, in accordance with the UNHCR humanitarian program.
Authorised and printed by Derek Schild, Australian Greens, 8-10 Hobart Place Canberra 2601"

Send them back home and tell them to apply through proper channels.
Send them back home and tell them to apply through proper channels.
Send them back home and tell them to apply through proper channels.
Send them back home and tell them to apply through proper channels.

That's my four steps. I'm fed up to the gills with it all. I've got refugee fatigue. I still don't see why we should allow these people to arrive without documentation when they obviously had it to flay to Indonesia.