And here you are again Dale, whinging about women. It would be unquestionable to state that the vast majority of your posts are whinging about women Dale.

I'm wondering if therapy would help.

In addition, how often do we see anyone over the age of 40 naked, in particular anyone over the age of 60? I have not come across any American movies where there are naked bodies of old people, or indeed sex scenes involving old people. Perhaps its my lack of time to watch movies, but I have often wondered about this.

Interesting that there wasn't any nudity or explicit sex scenes in a movie about a couple managing their sex life, a movie in which a sex scene or nudity would be relevant to the story. In contrast I have often seen movies where there is little or no relevance to the plot line or story to the explicit and numerous sex scenes, involving those perfect and practically hairless, young bodies.

An interesting topic Lauren, thanks for your replies.

"as he seemed to think it perfectly ok for me to watch any amount of female nudity and not bat an eyelid. (BTW, nudity of either sex doesn't bother me at all). It was the double standard in practise that I found interesting."

But the double standard is not set by your male friend, but by the reality that you even concede. He likes/dislikes some type of film. You don't share that same standard. It's not that hard.

Good point, particularly the comparison factor, perhaps this is also why women may also be uncomfortable with female nudity.

Its interesting also, your point about accidental arousal, although this doesn't seem to have the same impact in regards to pornography, where men seem quite comfortable with seeing naked men. Then again there is nothing accidental about being aroused by pornography, and a bit harder to judge exactly what is causing the arousal, the naked men, or the naked women.

"Good point, particularly the comparison factor, perhaps this is also why women may also be uncomfortable with female nudity."

So do women check out each other's clitoris in the locker room, and compare size?

"So do women check out each other's clitoris in the locker room, and compare size?"

Tip to Kim Darcy - unless one parts one's labia, it doesn't show.

The increasing disparity between males and females of displayed flesh is by no means restricted to the sexual organs.

It may have escaped the notice of anyone under 45 but in the sixties men wore 'speedos' to the beach and women wore, initially, full swim suits later to become bikinis. Some time in the early 70's the speedo was swapped for short-shorts (not unlike those some men wore to the office (Google Don Dunstan)). Later the short shorts became 'boardies' usually baggy and reaching below the knees (of young men). These days speedos are usually only seen in the racing pool and at gay events. Young males are especially reluctant to 'show the goods' whereas they expect young females to, if not bear all, leave little to the imagination.

Why so? Perhaps Baywatch is to blame because the boys in Neighbours at the same time were still wearing speedos (call skungies (sic) in the 70's). Yes the good old US prude took control.

Perhaps men with way too much ego and homophobia assume that if they show more all the gay guys will, shock horror, look at them (probaly true). Perhaps size is an issue for bearing all. The flaccid dick is not representative of an erect one but, hey, size matters. Ewan McGregor in the Pillow Book v Michael Pitt in The Dreamers is a nice comparison (but perhaps not for Michael).

I have a feeling the the coming generation of young men will be more willing to bear (and see all). On the other hand the rise of the religious right (in all religions) may have an influence.

Well?
7th Congress of Obstetrical and Gynecological Ultrasonography?
5th International Congress of the International Society for History of Islamic Medicine?
ICECECE 2012 International Conference on Electrical, Computer, Electronics and Communication Engineering?
1st PNAE Congress on Paediatric Nursing?
1st International Symposium on Naval Architecture and Maritime?

You must be able to give some kind of hint.

I think it was the 904987656th Convention for Wasting Taxpayer's Money at Some Stupid Convention.

"I *must* be able to give some kind of hint?"

For an academic you seem not to have a good grasp of the English language. Allow me to point the difference between "You must give some kind of hint" and "you must be able to give me some kind of hint." The first is an imperative, a demand that you supply a hint, the second is my estimation - however mistaken - of your capabilities.

Of course perhaps the necessary letters have been stolen from your keyboard, you suffer from total amnesia or there was no interesting fetish conference in Istanbul. In all of these cases you certainly wouldn't be able to give me any hint whatsoever.

Ooops - malaprop warning - I mean GONADS, not "genitals". Sorry.

Maybe its time for you to read a grade 8 biology book.

In fact, I think a course in basic, elementary, commonsense, general knowledge biology would have to be recommend for anyone intending to do a course in gender studies.

And no, they don’t get caught in zippers, unless someone is inebriated.

Sue, I had the same idea about "genitals" and the inside/outside business. I'm not a betting man, but I wonder what would happen to box-office figures if the REAL female genitalia were to replace the traditional outside 'bush only' shots?

No, no, no, no.

The penis can be caught in a zipper if the person handling the penis is inebriated. This may not necessarily be the man.

Overall I think the article is about penis envy, and I don’t envy the modern woman for having penis envy, but it is something they will have to live with (or without, or whatever)

But I am perplexed as to why the vulva is called the vulva, but the penis is referred to as the “dongle” or the “wang” etc.

Does the modern woman have any sense of decorum, and can they refer to a penis as a penis?

Sadly, everytime it has happened to me has been when I was stone cold sober.

I personally have not had any difficulties sober or drunk, but I am quite particular regards which modern woman handles my penis.

For instance, if she refers to it as a “wang”, then obviously she doesn’t have much regard for it, and wouldn’t be allowed to make any use of it.

She would have to find some other term or go without.

I personally have not had any difficulties regards size, or any complaints regards size.

The difficulty is now finding the right modern woman. She might be a feminist, or have no regard or appreciation of anything or anyone.

So be forever vigilant would be good advice for anyone.

Exactly, and this could be a huge problem.

The man might think she could be feminist, or has no appreciation for anyone or anything, and is best to stay well away from her.

The woman may actually be feminist, and is trying to hide this, so she can get at the man.

There becomes widespread suspicion and distrust, and also the penis becomes rarely used for what it was intended for.

The penis is simply shown in movies, and this somehow satisfies a feminist.

No, its not a sword.

This whole situation could be a similar to what has occurred with the female breast.

In women’s magazines, breast are featured very heavily, with lots of photos of women wearing low cut dresses etc exposing part of their breasts.

But very few modern women actually use their breasts for what they were intended for, which was breastfeeding.

The breast is only there to be looked at by other women, and it could become the same with the penis, (or a feminist may refer to it as a “wang” or something stupid like that).

The penis could only be looked at by the modern woman, but never actually used.

So the author wants to see more penises in the movies, but nothing about the penis being used more often by the modern woman.

There is a big difference between "seeing" and actually "using".

Dale - you told us about your ABC on another thread - A standing for abstinence. Have you recanted?

Well, I have never heard a feminist say to women “Love The Man Your With”, so in that regards feminists must want lots of abstinence.

I think I might be getting close to solving the maze of this article.

Penis envy is obviously involved, and while the author wants to see more penises in movies, she isn’t actually recommending to women that they make use of the penis, only look at it.

But at the same time, the author wants to mock penises by calling them “dongles” etc.

Its all very complicated, weird and has minimal logic involved, but that’s the type of society one can expect in a feminist type of society.

BTW.

Here is a good video for someone thinking of converting to feminism

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bO4oI10tF5E

Thankfully there are men in the world.

Are you thinking of converting, Dale?

"Are you thinking of converting, Dale"

No, I feel no need to be a mindless follower of an “ism”.

But I can appreciate some aspects of this article. It is a mixture of whinging, penis envy, voyeurism and the denigration of men all within about 500 words.

That is quite an achievement, and hopefully other modern women don’t feel the need to replicate it.

I sense you are not a fan of the penis.

This is the problem. The author seems to be a fan and wants to see more penises in movies, but hasn’t recommended to women that they become more familiar with a penis in real life.

Thinking further about it, there could yet be another layer wrapped around this article.

The author may also think some crappy American movies are actually real life.

What a tangled web.

Whinging, penis envy, voyeurism, male denigration, and now the possibility of not being able to distinguish between crappy American movies and reality.

Oh I think penis envy is very real for some modern women.

Maybe not a physical desire for a penis, but a general sense of inferiority, which makes them want to whinge and whinge and whinge, and also hit out and denigrate men, such as referring to their genitals as “wangs” etc.

There is this definition of penis envy:

“the concept that the female envies the male his possession of a penis or, more generally, any of his characteristics.”

http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/penis+envy

However, I prefer this splendid article by Divine Caroline, in “The Girl’s Guide to Man Parts.”

“In the interest of full disclosure, I should tell you I don’t have a penis. But I’ve had enough favorable encounters with male genitalia to make me a die-hard fan.”

http://www.divinecaroline.com/22078/115426-penis-envy-girl-s-guide-parts#ixzz2Je080JG8

That article should definitely be required reading for anyone intending to enrol in a gender studies course, after they have completed their prerequisite course in basic, elementary, fundamental biology.

Yes, you do seem very abusive.

I haven't abused you, but I can if you like that sort of thing.

I myself don't watch too many crappy American movies, and don't get much of a thrill watching violence and shooting and killing and simulated, artificial sex.

Seen any good movies lately?

Here’s something Australian made you might find interesting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90sJGvU-8Z4

No thanks, I’ve had tea.

But that movie is the type of thing the modern woman should be interested in, and not devote their time to whinging and whinging and thinking of evil things to say about men.

I can remember taking my daughter to watch Blue Crush, but it eventually was some crappy American movie with a story line out of a teenage girl’s romance book, and I think I fell asleep.

This is something I sometimes watch when doing data entry.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpV5uEVq3-I

The modern woman, like the modern man, should be interested in whatever they damn well please.

I rather like that it's not the medieval era.

But, I also prefer picturesque nature shots over whinging.
Also, I like it quite a bit more than data entry.
I can understand why you watch it while typing.

While we're being Freudian, perhaps Mr Bloom's fear of feminism is just a manifestation of castration anxiety.

"get back in the kitchen bitch and cook me some pieh!" may be more apt!

I take it, Mr Bloom, like Mr Freud, has a genital fixation. Perhaps both were shamed in early childhood when innocently discovering their dangley bits.

Like I said, it's a theory rife with satirical absurdity

Ema and Sue,

Thanks for the abuse and personal insults.

You do feminism proud, and you are a credit to the schools and universities that taught you.

Have a great day.

PS. Also, please try not to get too oppressed sitting in some dank, dungy, cheap cinema watching crappy American movies in the hope of seeing a penis.

Oh yes, Freud is sacred to feminism, because of his castration theories.

Interestingly, feminists seldom mention his penis envy theories.

Your abuse and insults were also stock standard, and been done many times before.

I think they are now being programmed in, sort of like inserting a chip.

I may not be a team player or fitting in with the crowd, but I have no compulsion for such things as looking for penises in American movies, or being an "ist" and mindlessly following an "ism".

I think you have a fixation on abuse.

But back to the subject, and there could be another element in the article.

The author is simply trying to make money by selling some book to easily lead and easily manipulated minds.

So we have been reading far too much into this after all.

Still abusing are we.

So at the end of it all, the article was just a sales pitch for some book about crappy American movies.

Of course no one is compelled to watch crappy American movies.

But the modern woman has to be made to feel oppressed, to keep professional feminists employed.

Try this website for new material, Eric

http://foulomatic.hnldesign.nl/

Try Spin Sisters.

Or, "How to make the Modern Woman Feel Oppressed and Depressed, so She Will Buy More Stuff"

Who are these people that are finding penises, and in particular penises attached, (attached? surely it is part of his body, not an attachment), to men of African descent, "confronting/explicit/aggressive/challenging ?

I'd be interested in your thoughts on this question Kim.

Judith, certainly nobody I hang around. But "the 'menace' of the black man's penis" is one of the classic tropes of the Gender/Cultural Studies crowd.

I did wonder, as I know nobody in my circle of friends or family that find the penis, (whomever it belongs to), confronting, explicit, aggressive, (how is a piece of flesh aggressive?) or challenging. Then again I don't know anyone in the gender/cultural studies crowd, so that could explain things.

Judith, the Cultural/Gender Studies are pretty useless when it comes to empirics, or actual data of how real people act. Much too hard. So they stumble around the world, in their little discursive bubbles of paranoid "theory", reaching into their bag of received cliches in order to impose order on life's wonderful intricacies.

At risk of sounding like I agree with Dale....that sums it up far too often.

Emma, I am not saying that all these theoretical generalizations and cliches are by definition wrong. It's just that when I hear somebody rave on about "the male gaze", "rape culture", "homophobia", "misogyny", and so on, my natural instinct is to ask for some - quite a lot actually - evidence. These are monstrous claims, and if true, we must act.

That's a fair point to me. There is of course evidence, for and against these arguments you speak of.

My main issue is that some of the humanities are particularly prone to waffling and a lack of clear definitions that make it sound rather like a baseless sensationalist wank.

Unfortunately, this belies the main point of the humanities broadly, which is to offer an analytical critique of human affairs, so the social sciences can do the hard yards of actually getting to the bottom of the facts.

Through the social sciences, you'll find that homophobia, misogyny and a tendency to not take rape as seriously as is deserved are actually cultural variables that impact human conduct and these have not been successfully resolved anywhere and although Australia is not at the bottom of the heap it is still failing quite miserably.

The male gaze is a bit sensationalist, but, when a person who may have been raped by a male in a culture that didn't take the violence as seriously as warranted complains of being visually objectified, whether or not it's empirically true of all males, I would have to say: it's difficult not to be sympathetic.

I wouldn't call it a clearly defined term....for operational purposes....but it is a potential variable for which evidence can, and may have already been derived.

Emma, I actually agree that "the male gaze" does stand up with enough evidence to justify it as an analytical category. I really think the tendency to conflate 'sexism' and 'misogyny' is wrong in fact, and dangerous politically. On this one, I agree wth Eva Cox. I also think it is important to keep the understanding of 'homophobia' in the 'fear/hatred' of area. 'Homophobes' go out at night hunting gay men, explicitly to bash and kill them. Males with rib other males about using hand moisturizer are not in the same camp.