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Mind over matter? The ethics of using the placebo effect

There’s good evidence showing expectations to get better have significant effects on how patients suffering a variety of ailments feel. This is called the placebo effect from the original meaning in Latin…

Placebo treatments can be effective in treating some conditions by the “self-healing” capabilities of the brain. melancolie en velours/Flickr

There’s good evidence showing expectations to get better have significant effects on how patients suffering a variety of ailments feel. This is called the placebo effect from the original meaning in Latin, I will please.

The placebo effect is a perceived or actual improvement of a medical condition that occurs even when the people are given inert treatments – the proverbial “sugar pill”. It reflects the ability of the brain to control many states of the body, even those not under voluntary control.

One well-documented example of the placebo effect explained by the activation of brain pain suppressant mechanisms – endorphins – was shown 30 years ago. Patients with dental pain after an operation were given either naloxone, a drug that prevents the actions of endorphins, or a placebo.

The placebo pain relief was due to the release of endorphins, indicating that the improvement in the subjective feeling of pain is similar to that experienced with actual painkillers. Numerous other studies since have revealed many self-healing responses based on the placebo effect.

Nocebo effect

The brain can also influence health in a harmful way. This is the nocebo effect (from Latin nocere meaning to harm). Well-documented examples of nocebo effect are the adverse effects some life stresses have on the heart. Substantial scientific evidence links coronary heart disease and depression, social isolation and lack of social support. It seems heartache and social rejection can indeed kill you.

Research on both placebo and nocebo effects is in its infancy and reveals that the ability of the brain to influence some diseases depends on high neural centers. Diseases lacking major influences from these centers are less prone to improvement by placebos.

Pain is significantly affected by higher brain centers, so it’s open to the placebo effect and also to a significant nocebo effect – transforming a mild pain in a severe one. Tumours are little influenced, if at all, by the brain, so they’re not really improved by the placebo effect, although the patients may feel subjectively better.

Ethics of placebo

We know that the placebo effect may improve some ailments. We also know that in many cases the placebo effect change how people feel about the disease, improving the quality of life. But is its use ethical? If placebo treatments can be effective in treating some conditions by the “self-healing” capabilities of the brain, is it ethical to use costly medical interventions instead?

These questions have risen in clinical sciences since World War II, as a result of the widespread adoption of randomised controlled trial in scientific medicine. It was noticed then that people in placebo control groups improve, sometimes dramatically.

Since then, clinical trials in most western countries have been required to take the placebo effect into account. This requirement was introduced in a revision of the Declaration of Helsinki (first drawn up in 1964) issued by the World Medical Association in October 2000.

In a 2002 paper in The Lancet, researchers concluded that provided “the safety and interests of individual patients are carefully protected, the conduct of placebo-controlled trials in these situations remains vital if correct regulatory decisions are to be made on the basis of reliable research.”

So clinicians, researchers and pharmaceutical companies are engaged in a search for ethical and effective treatments while taking the placebo effect into account. There’s clear consensus that deception in treatments is unacceptable in modern medical practice.

But many of the mild improvements in current general practice medicine are probably due to the placebo effect; the most frequently prescribed placebos by general practitioners are antibiotics for viral infections, and vitamins for fatigue.

It appears that modern alternative and complementary medicines (CAM) also work mostly by the placebo effect. Most randomized placebo controlled trials on the efficacy of some of the most commonly used alternative medicines demonstrate that they are no more effective than placebo treatments.

One of the best early examples of scientific testing on the validity of a doubtful treatment was the testing of the existence of an alleged mysterious psychic force, called animal magnetism. This mysterious force linking all animated and inanimate objects, was proposed by Anton Mesmer (hence the term mesmerize), a German physician with an interest in astronomy. It was used to treat patients suffering various ailments.

Because some patients actually improved during the mesmerizing procedure, the then-king of France had a group of scientists and physicians test the existence of this mysterious fluid. The commission concluded that there was no evidence for it, and whatever benefit the treatment produced was attributed to “imagination”.

The power of imagination and self-suggestion have been documented in most cultures for thousand of years, with the use of witchcraft and sorcery. Both claim to use supernatural or magical powers, such magic spells, curses or magic potions, to influence people either favorably or adversely. Such potions and spells work almost certainly as placebo and nocebo effects, and were based fundamentally on deceptions on gullible people.

In this sense, alternative and complementary medicines represent the modern version of witchcraft and sorcery. They too claim mysterious explanations for their remedies and deception is still the norm in these non-regulated, non-medical industries. This raises very significant ethical issues about their legitimacy in a modern, well-regulated, health public system.

The scientific study of the placebo and nocebo effect is part of the exciting advances in modern neuroscience on the way in which the brain normally controls many bodily functions. We do know that this is mostly done by operating below conscious awareness.

Join the conversation

44 Comments sorted by

  1. jamie jardine

    Acupuncturist

    "If placebo treatments can be effective in treating some conditions by the “self-healing” capabilities of the brain, is it ethical to use costly medical interventions instead?"

    Many conventional treatments as well as being costly also have harmful side-effects, if the body can heal itself with some encouragement from a third party then I believe this should be the first line of treatment. You can see in this report from 60 minutes how in the U.K. the use of talk therapy and exercise is now recommended as the first line treatment for people with mild depression..
    http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7399362n

    Also what about the use of acupuncture for the treatment of chronic lower back pain, this has been shown to be more effective than conventional treatment, but not to be efficacious? The question of effectiveness vs efficacious is an interesting one..
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3057684/

    Anyway, interesting discussion, thank you for bringing it up..

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    1. jamie jardine

      Acupuncturist

      In reply to jamie jardine

      Should read above "The question of effectiveness vs efficacy is an interesting one.. "

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    2. Marcello Costa
      Marcello Costa is a Friend of The Conversation.

      Professor of Neurophysiology, Department of Physiology at Flinders University

      In reply to jamie jardine

      Thanks Jamie for your comments.
      Indeed appropriate treatments in modern Medicine include all aspects of biological, psychological and social aspects of our existence as high apes with a remarkable ability to communicate and form cultures. This approach by the well recognized and accepted biopsychosocial model of Medicine (made explicit in 1977), is part of scientific research not of sorcery and magic as some CAMs propose.

      I am interested to hear more insights in the issue of efficacy and effectiveness.

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    3. jamie jardine

      Acupuncturist

      In reply to Marcello Costa

      "Efficacy signifies superiority over placebo controls in randomized controlled trials (RCTs). Effectiveness implies greater or equal clinical benefits compared to an already established treatment."

      Marcello, if a treatment shows in RCT's to be the most effective form of treatment we currently have for a particular condition, and if that treatment is also safe and cost effective would it be unethical not to utilize it as a front-line treatment?

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    4. jamie jardine

      Acupuncturist

      In reply to jamie jardine

      It appears Marcello that you are not really interested in the discussion of the placebo effect and its ethical implacations at all, but instead are using this topic as another excuse to (albeit thinly veiled) attack alternative medicine.

      Dissappointing considering the topic is of great interest to me (and many others), as is the therapeutic encounter in general. There is much we can learn from ancient forms of healing such as Chinese medicine and other similar holistic modalities, especially acupuncture which cannot be as easily dismissed as bunk.

      In my opinion in regards to my question I posed to you, it is unethical to ignore a treatment that is safe, cheap and effective just because it falls outside the current paradigm.

      It is also no coincidence that you compare alternative medicine to witchcraft and sorcery in your article, because this campaign by the FSM is beginning to look more and more like a good old fashioned witch hunt..

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    5. Marcello Costa
      Marcello Costa is a Friend of The Conversation.

      Professor of Neurophysiology, Department of Physiology at Flinders University

      In reply to jamie jardine

      Hi Jamie,
      thanks for correcting my single example I gave for interpersonal communication. Of course we also use physical means to go from one brain to another, with light, touch and anything else for which we have some sensory detectors, short of reading the very electrical activity from within the brain. This 'reading of the mind' by the way is beginning to be accomplished and will revolutionarize communication for completely paralized people and other conditions.

      But coming to your main…

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    6. Marcello Costa
      Marcello Costa is a Friend of The Conversation.

      Professor of Neurophysiology, Department of Physiology at Flinders University

      In reply to jamie jardine

      Hi Jamie, you are right, I did not discuss the complex issues of placebo use in any medical situation. It seems it is used widely often without knowing. However when doctors use this light process of make feeling better a patient there is no particular vested interest in deceiving the patient. No mysterious drug or treatment is proposed that promises miracle cure. Is not used for serious disease in medicine, simply because has a mild effect. In this sense in the article I mention and agree with…

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    7. jamie jardine

      Acupuncturist

      In reply to Marcello Costa

      Thank you for your response Marcello, although I disagree with your opinion that acupuncture is quackery and that its use is deceptive. The denial of a safe and effective treatment, one that conventional medicine does poorly in treating is unethical in my opinion no matter how you try to justify it.

      With regard to CAM in general it has been shown that people want treatment from modalities that represent there value system and worldview. CAM and especially TCM acknowledge the important role of…

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    8. Marcello Costa
      Marcello Costa is a Friend of The Conversation.

      Professor of Neurophysiology, Department of Physiology at Flinders University

      In reply to jamie jardine

      Jamie back to the beginning, if a procedure works by a placebo effect is not a new therapy, and cannot be sold. This is my view shared by most involved in placebo effect.
      If a procedure is deemed to be efficacious, then appropriate clinical trials should reveal it.
      If it is not, but continues to be proposed as efficacious therapy, then is quackery.
      Some procedures work for minor ailments such as acupunture for low back pain, although a meta analysis of such treatments concluded 'Acupuncture effectively…

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    9. jamie jardine

      Acupuncturist

      In reply to Marcello Costa

      Yes, it does come down to personal choice Marcello, and those who believe that as human beings that we are more than a bag of chemicals will continue to look outside the current materialistic scientific paradigm for answers to lifes questions. The field of neuroscience may have a reasonable grasp of the functioning of neurons within the brain, but the hard problem of consciousness is still beyond your grasp.

      Although I respect your view above and in many ways agree with you on some of your points…

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  2. john mills

    artist

    Very good article, when i was a young man just out of my teenage years and quite troubled emotionally, psychologically,(mentally not, just not into the whole mental thing) I went to see someone who convinced me with words of encouragement and common sense that I was ok, and was going to be ok, that everything was ok and that all would be well, I'm so glad I never went to a psychiatrist with a real poison and a lesson on why i was sick and why I needed a poison to not cure me but to mange an illness that was never going to go away and that only they could see, the power of the mind hey!!

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    1. Marcello Costa
      Marcello Costa is a Friend of The Conversation.

      Professor of Neurophysiology, Department of Physiology at Flinders University

      In reply to john mills

      Thanks John for sharing your experience. Psychiatry and psychology work by both physical and pharmacological therapies and 'talk therapies'. They are both part of modern scientific Medicine. The choice of what therapy is best in these fields is of significant importance. The linking studies of brain (neuroscience) and human interventions as suggested above is at its infancy. This means that the field requires more science not pseudoscience. The battle of the newly formed Friends of Science in Medicine of which I am one of the five founders is precisely to support real science to address the relation between the mind and the body in well being and disease. Proponents of complementary and alternative medicines claim that they base some of their treatment on some sort of unique knowledge they have on the Mind and body relationship. Far from this. They are a real obstacle to the clear and rigorous thinking that this fascinating and complex problem entails.

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    2. john mills

      artist

      In reply to Marcello Costa

      Thanks Marcello, When i responded i meant to say psychology doesn't use physical therapy,( restraint or incarceration or chemical) im sure there are physical reactions in a chemical sense to all sensations, emotions etc, but that wasn't my point, my point was, the physical i was talking about, is the imposed real physical abuse, called therapy, both physically and mentally, by psychiatry to its clients/ and victims. Clients being happy and compliant. Victims being not happy, and non compliant…

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  3. Rey Tiquia
    Rey Tiquia is a Friend of The Conversation.

    Honorary Fellow, School of Historical and Philosophical Studies at University of Melbourne

    In the practice of traditional Chinese medicine (TCM) it is 'mind 心 ('xin') and matter 物 ('wu') ' in interactive combination.

    We can actually translate/interpret 'placebo effect' in Western biomedical practice as ''shen 神 effect' in TCM practice . I linguistically translate the Chinese word 'shen' into English as 'spirit'. This ‘shen-effect’ or ‘placebo effect,’ which transpires during the clinical encounter between the practitioner and the patient, is best illustrated in an ancient Chinese…

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    1. Marcello Costa
      Marcello Costa is a Friend of The Conversation.

      Professor of Neurophysiology, Department of Physiology at Flinders University

      In reply to Rey Tiquia

      Hi Rey,
      great story. If based on historical records would clarify lots of apparent successes of Traditional Chinese medicine in some ailments. Fortunately placebo effects have been used empirically by most cultures
      However, none of the pre-scientific medicines, such as Ayurveda medicine, the herbal medicine of the old Greek-Roman-European tradition and Chinese Traditional Medicine and others, were ever able to actually cure serious diseases. Modern attempts to revive these pre-scientific medicines is simply taking our health system back in a time of superstitions and unfounded beliefs. Research on the few potential drugs used in traditional uses and that may have reasonable chances to work for diseases is welcome by modern medical research.

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    2. Rey Tiquia
      Rey Tiquia is a Friend of The Conversation.

      Honorary Fellow, School of Historical and Philosophical Studies at University of Melbourne

      In reply to Marcello Costa

      Hi Marcello,

      The 'story' is actually incorporated in my PhD dissertation 'Traditional Chinese Medicine as An Australian Tradition of Health Care (Melbourne, 2005) which an attempt to 'revive' the premodern practice of TCM here in the Australian locale. This work entails researching the efficacy of TCM's various treatment modalities on the basis of it's own traditional values and culture.

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    3. Richard Dobson

      logged in via Facebook

      In reply to Marcello Costa

      Sceptic dickheads just don't understand Chinese Medicine. They are so involved in their own foolish paradigm of "placebo" and whatnot that they can't understand TCM is an holistic and integrative therapeutic practice. Body AND mind are simultaneously engaged in order to stimulate the patients own endogenous self-healing response. Indeed, the saying in TCM is "the mind leads the qi, the qi leads the blood". In this context, how utterly, ridiculously ludicrous it is to try to introduce the foreign and irrelevant concept of "placebo" into the discussion.

      But don't try to inform a fanatic sceptic extremist like Marcello Costa of this manifest fact, they're too smugly self-deluded in arrogant dismissal of concepts they're too unsophisticated to grasp...

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    4. Tim Scanlon

      Author and Scientist

      In reply to Richard Dobson

      What about the scientists who have tested Chinese Medicines? I guess all of that research they have done to see what is worthwhile incorporating and what is rubbish for modern medicine, that must all be silly too.....

      Richard, science and medicine are the reason we have our wonderful modern society. Everything can be tested with the right technology and experiments. Science is all about embracing what is useful and rejecting what is useless. Dogma on the other hand....

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  4. Tim Scanlon

    Author and Scientist

    We already have placebo treatments all around us: homeopathy, reiki, accupuncture, chiropractic, etc.

    I don't think it is ethical to promote placebo treatments at all. Mental outlook is what needs to be addressed, not fleecing people for money. If placebo treatments are promoted we end up with millions of dollars funnelled into shams that can then distract people from receiving proper medical treatment when they actually need it.

    Medicine needs to be scientific and the first and only port of call. Otherwise harm will be done, the opposite of the hippocratic oath.

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    1. jamie jardine

      Acupuncturist

      In reply to Tim Scanlon

      Tim every form of treatment contains a component of placebo, without it many treatments currently used would be far less effective. Take the case of Alzheimer's disease, it has been shown that due to cognitive impairment the placebo effect is reduced or not present at all greatly diminishing the effectiveness of analgesia in controlling pain.. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16473462

      Rather than dismissing placebo as an annoyance, we should be studying its mechanisms to enhance its utilization in practice..
      I can recommend Ted Kaptchuk's website for some fantastic placebo research for anyone interested in increasing their knowledge in this area.. http://tedkaptchuk.com/
      And also the Harvard-wide Program in Placebo Studies and the Therapeutic Encounter (PiPS) http://programinplacebostudies.org/

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    2. Tim Scanlon

      Author and Scientist

      In reply to jamie jardine

      Yes, this was my point with looking into the mental outlook that is tied to the placebo effect. There have been various studies on many things: pills, praying, positive mood; and they all confer a positive mental outlook on a response. By not tying this to a "placebo" but rather understanding what is actually occurring, treatments could be developed and current actual treatments enhanced.

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  5. matt88

    logged in via Twitter

    Just a week ago my mother (80 yo) showed me some new tablets that she had been taking for cramps that she had been experiencing at night. She said that after a few days use they seemed to be working.

    To my horror I saw that they were homeopathy tablets so proceeded to explain in detail to her what homeopathy is. However, now I am not sure that I did right thing (in this case) as she said they were working - I may have destroyed the placebo effect.

    I will see how the tablets are working in another week or two.

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    1. Richard Dobson

      logged in via Facebook

      In reply to matt88

      You were "horrified" to see your mother gaining benefit from a treatment? What sort of a son are you?

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    2. Bayani Bacalla Mills

      logged in via Facebook

      In reply to Richard Dobson

      You might want to read what he said a little more carefully.

      Matt said he was horrified that they were homeopathic tablets - not that he was horrified she was gaining a benefit from it.

      If it turns out to be a much more sinister problem though, she will have put off an effective treatment for 2-3 weeks in favour for a product known to possess no active ingredients.

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  6. john mills

    artist

    Thanks Marcello, The funny thing about that( psychiatry and psychology) is that Psychology as far as i know doesn't work by physical therapy, by by talk, or cognitive therapy, whereas psychiatry works, in my mind, not so much by pharmacological therapy, or if you like intervention, its only pharmacological" therapy" if the person receiving it is happy about it and not traumatized or feeling oppressed or insane from it, and if they aren't, then its more like physical and pharmacological abuse, in their( the psychiatrists) mind it might be therapy, but thats another matter. or is it another imagination, just like the diagnosis in so many cases.

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    1. Alex A. Sanchez

      Post-Doc in Clinical Psychology

      In reply to john mills

      John,
      A lot of talk therapies actual create physical, observable changes in human physiology. When new habits and behaviors are developed through Cognitive-Behavioral Therapy, new neural pathways are simultaneously created in conjunction. Writing therapy, one technique used to help people suffering from Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder, has been shown to increase the number of white blood cells in the body, thereby improving the immune system. In many situations, the mind is all that is needed to enact change in the body. Sometimes placebos are all that is needed to kick-start this change. In others, directed talk therapy and/or pharmaceuticals are needed. It's a huge field, and as Dr. Costa said, there is plenty of exploring to be done.

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    2. Marcello Costa
      Marcello Costa is a Friend of The Conversation.

      Professor of Neurophysiology, Department of Physiology at Flinders University

      In reply to Alex A. Sanchez

      Hi Alex and John,
      what often we do not realise is that even talk therapy (or otherwise) is a physical phenomenon involving electrical activity of one brain at the highest levels (cortex but yet still neural electrochemical activity), passing to muscle to contract (vocal cords!) which produces a sound wave that crosses the space, initiates the vibration of the ear drum and eventually is transformed in electrochemical activity in the brain of the other person. From brain to brain there is no other…

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    3. jamie jardine

      Acupuncturist

      In reply to Marcello Costa

      ".....initiates the vibration of the ear drum and eventually is transformed in electrochemical activity in the brain of the other person. From brain to brain there is no other way to communicate so far! "

      The only way, really? You might want to rethink this statement..

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  7. john mills

    artist

    Thanks Alex, your right about changes in the body, especially after P.T.S.D, but running around the oval does that too, its the O.S.R.O.D.D im worried about, thats the "ongoing stress related oppressive drug disorder" psychiatry's forcefully's giving the community and our kids. Thats the one we have to, collectively, worry about, and be "real" about. Then theirs the G.W.D.A.A.I,D disorder, thats the "government wont do anything about it disorder" Ever heard of those disorders, their in the new Johnny DSJ6.

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    1. Emma Anderson

      logged in via Facebook

      In reply to john mills

      Marcello, many people in society believe and are encouraged to believe that science is 'truth'. Many discoveries made in science throughout the ages and within the modern age itself, which were at one time considered as truth, have shifted to being an un-truth as more scientific discoveries were made and so a new truth emerged. I think we can both agree that science has never understood everything at any one time and science is always discovering new things. Considering that 'truth' in the scientific…

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    2. Marcello Costa
      Marcello Costa is a Friend of The Conversation.

      Professor of Neurophysiology, Department of Physiology at Flinders University

      In reply to Emma Anderson

      Thank you Emma for the thoughtful comments. Science aims at finding how things are by a process of trial ad error and by approximation. Truth is a short cut term that actually only applies to the world of logic.
      Your fascinating trip through the history of the term meridiens and your conclusion that 'Who know's, "meridiens" as you put it, may very well exist.'does not alter the simple view that there no evidence whatsoever that such things exist.
      Did you know that Chinese medicine never involved anatomical dissection? No wander if what Chinese traditional practitioners imagined is inside the body is simply a figment of imagination. To assume that sometime in the future somebody will discover that after all 'meridiens' exist is like expecting astronauts discovering eventually that the Earth is actually a flat tray.

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    3. jamie jardine

      Acupuncturist

      In reply to Marcello Costa

      "Did you know that Chinese medicine never involved anatomical dissection? "

      That is a myth, according to historical records dissection was carried out, not only this but surgeons on the battle field would have been very familiar with the inside of the body..

      Ancient Anatomy: The Dissection of Wang Sun-qing
      According to the Hou Han Shu (History of Latter Han), in ‘Biography of Wang Mang’ in the entry
      for 16 AD.
      “Wang Sun-Qing 王孫慶, of the (rebel) faction of Zhai Yi 翟義, had been caught; the emperor
      (Wang Mang) ordered a court physician 太醫 (tai yi), a prescription master (shang fang 尚方) and
      a skillful butcher to dissect and flay the body.
      Measurements were made of the five internal organs (wu zang 五藏) and fine bamboo rods were
      used to trace the pathways of the vessels (mai 脉) to find out where they ended and began; saying
      that thereby they would know how to treat diseases.”

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    4. Marcello Costa
      Marcello Costa is a Friend of The Conversation.

      Professor of Neurophysiology, Department of Physiology at Flinders University

      In reply to jamie jardine

      Jamie, just as I thought. three clicks away in Google and whow! all is cleared.
      This article, well known to all those interested in the history of Anatomy in Traditional Chinese medicine, confirms that like in other cultures, curiosity was there and some individuals challenged the belief systems that in most early cultures did not like to open bodies of other humans. Those few in China probably also in most other early cultures, never generated serious studies. The heavy hand of fear and superstition…

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  8. Richard Dobson

    logged in via Facebook

    The concept of placebo is *ONLY* relevant in the context of a pharmaceutical drug trial, where its imperiative to separate out and isolate the pharmacological effect of the drug on physiology from any other influence whatsoever.

    However, in ALL other contexts, and ESPECIALLY in a clinical context, even the slightest second guess or concern regarding the concept of placebo is not only irrelevant, its downright harmful.

    The physician is trying to help people GET BETTER, by any means possible…

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    1. Tim Scanlon

      Author and Scientist

      In reply to Richard Dobson

      You are incorrect and clearly do not understand what a placebo can and does entail.

      When you test a null hypothesis with experimental designs, you need to be able to remove false positives. The placebo is the false positive. You are measuring the false positive by instigating a treatment within the experiment that will account for the false positive.

      When a treatment like acupuncture or homoeopathy is found to be no better than the placebo, it is saying that when you account for the false positive there is no difference. Basically the mere fact that the person was seeing someone about their stiff neck would have resulted in them getting better, regardless of whether they sat in the waiting room for an hour and then going home or actually having the treatment.

      You cannot ignore scientific principles whilst posting on the internet, as you would be trying to divide by zero.

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    2. jamie jardine

      Acupuncturist

      In reply to Tim Scanlon

      Tim, not all placebos are created equal, this is a fundemental point I think many miss. The control in most acupuncture trials is sham acupuncture, not just a sugar pill. I'm not sure if you read the article that I posted previously, but both traditional and sham acupuncture showed significant effectiveness compared to conventional treatment i.e. physio, exercise and NSAID's.. So obviously the sham acupuncture is not totally inert, there is something else going on there.

      I think it would be interesting to see more trials like this where acupuncture is tested against conventional treatment..

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    3. Tim Scanlon

      Author and Scientist

      In reply to jamie jardine

      I'm not sure what point you're making. There are limitations to every scientific experiment. When you are accounting for error and false positives the main thing is to be able to measure them (randomisation, replication, repeatability).

      Besides, I know that there has been a placebo control developed for testing acupuncture. Shallow needle placement, without the poker or pokee knowing which is which. Needless to say, acupuncture was shown to have no significant effect.
      http://www.skepdic.com/skeptimedia/skeptimedia15.html

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  9. Emma Anderson

    logged in via Facebook

    Marcello, in response to your reply to me, I think we have established and are already aware that there is no scientific evidence to date that meridians exist so there is no real reason for you to rehash over something you have already said in your article when I have not even spoken in my original comment about 'current' evidence existing. You have missed the point completely, or more specifically, ignored it. I might add how ironic it is you are correcting the belief in meridians as a part of…

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